WEBVTT 1 00:00:04.890 --> 00:00:05.400 Mariana Zorkina: Okay. 2 00:00:07.230 --> 00:00:08.309 Mariana Zorkina: Did you get the message. 3 00:00:09.929 --> 00:00:10.590 Mariana Zorkina: Good. 4 00:00:12.990 --> 00:00:14.130 Mariana Zorkina: Okay, so. 5 00:00:15.389 --> 00:00:24.780 Mariana Zorkina: Welcome everyone to methods in technology and lecture series that concentrates on research methods, rather than results. 6 00:00:26.250 --> 00:00:37.320 Mariana Zorkina: i'm very excited because this is the very first lecture in our series, and let me introduce the people who are behind it very quickly. 7 00:00:37.800 --> 00:00:59.400 Mariana Zorkina: I am marinas Kenan and i'm currently a PhD student at the University of Sir, and I am the founder of the series and then with me, there is the Co founder Madeline a bully who's also a PhD student, but at the different university University of eubank. 8 00:01:02.190 --> 00:01:06.870 Mariana Zorkina: Today we start with the very distinguished guests. 9 00:01:08.130 --> 00:01:14.400 Mariana Zorkina: Who will talk about Chinese poetry in Japan, and it is Professor Richard gentlemen. 10 00:01:16.110 --> 00:01:35.550 Mariana Zorkina: Professor Lynn has defended his PhD thesis on Washington as critical import in 1971 at Stanford university and has since worked and taught in a multitude of universities, including indiana university Stanford university University of British Columbia University California. 11 00:01:36.570 --> 00:01:41.280 Mariana Zorkina: University of Hong Kong national hacking university and university of Toronto. 12 00:01:42.750 --> 00:01:53.550 Mariana Zorkina: He has a very wide range of interests and so many publications that it will take a whole hour just to list the most important of them, so I will just. 13 00:01:54.090 --> 00:02:13.290 Mariana Zorkina: list some of the research topics, he has worked on, so they include, for example, poetry and literary criticism from soon dynasty and up to date imperial China, including research on oxygen juiciest literary critic and on time poetry and Buddhism. 14 00:02:15.120 --> 00:02:20.610 Mariana Zorkina: This of course includes many, many translations of poetry classical chains. 15 00:02:22.110 --> 00:02:25.680 Mariana Zorkina: He has also worked on perception of Chinese poetry in Japan. 16 00:02:26.760 --> 00:02:29.940 Mariana Zorkina: He translated eating and eating. 17 00:02:31.170 --> 00:02:51.780 Mariana Zorkina: And among his interests are also Chinese soapstone carvings and snow bottles and as someone who is using digital humanities i'm especially excited to see that in the 80s, he has even worked as editor for Chinese Japanese Korean database project. 18 00:02:53.010 --> 00:02:53.460 Mariana Zorkina: and 19 00:02:54.630 --> 00:03:08.940 Mariana Zorkina: his recent translation and study of the voice and commentary to drunken is now in copy editing for Columbia University press, and it is planned to be published in spring 2022. 20 00:03:09.780 --> 00:03:15.390 Mariana Zorkina: And he is very prolific inches work and there are two more projects is working right now as well. 21 00:03:16.230 --> 00:03:24.420 Mariana Zorkina: One of them is a book on the quantum Shin in his literary experiences in Japan, and he will part of the talk about this today. 22 00:03:24.930 --> 00:03:39.480 Mariana Zorkina: And the second project his own aesthetics of she painting stones that are cuttings of marble stone which will quite popular in China at some point, I hope I didn't miss anything. 23 00:03:42.930 --> 00:03:46.500 Mariana Zorkina: So a professor Lynn please. 24 00:03:48.150 --> 00:03:50.910 Richard Lynn: Okay i'll start, thank you for this generous. 25 00:03:52.050 --> 00:03:59.550 Richard Lynn: and overly enthusiastic introduction, I do have a wide range of interests. 26 00:04:00.630 --> 00:04:10.260 Richard Lynn: And I should probably tell you why this happened it happened because of the rather ridiculous reaction, I had to. 27 00:04:10.980 --> 00:04:11.340 Mariana Zorkina: A. 28 00:04:11.970 --> 00:04:31.200 Richard Lynn: One of my teachers was fw mode for its mode at princeton and back in the 1960s, he wrote a large state of the field for the journal of the Association for Asian studies and at that point, he said, well, we no longer have to know everything. 29 00:04:32.580 --> 00:04:43.230 Richard Lynn: Now i'm, to the point in Chinese studies East Asian studies in general that we can be disciplinary and we don't have to do everything the way our. 30 00:04:44.730 --> 00:04:53.160 Richard Lynn: predecessors have done and I thought to myself, no, I am going to continue to do everything which is for the ridiculous, so I wound up. 31 00:04:54.270 --> 00:05:10.110 Richard Lynn: working well, really, as long as something's written in literary or or classical Chinese when when you know i've worked on it so it's from the aging joey until here's one solution at the end of the 19th century. 32 00:05:11.820 --> 00:05:14.820 Richard Lynn: Well um let's start at. 33 00:05:18.180 --> 00:05:27.780 Richard Lynn: With this man I got interested in one solution, largely because I was asked to do a review Article of jury schmitz book on. 34 00:05:28.860 --> 00:05:40.680 Richard Lynn: On on huangshan was published back in the late 90s, for the journal China review international and I was so unhappy with the book. 35 00:05:41.820 --> 00:05:46.260 Richard Lynn: Both with Jerry schmidt's style of translating, which I found to be far too. 36 00:05:47.670 --> 00:06:08.940 Richard Lynn: loose paraphrase and in nature and but I was particularly unhappy about his treatment of one's own Shen in Japan, and so I got interested in financing Shen because of this doing this review Article and I have a list of or I rather have a graphic. 37 00:06:10.710 --> 00:06:17.820 Richard Lynn: source for that in a slide in a few slides later anyway handsome Chen was very interesting man. 38 00:06:19.020 --> 00:06:29.640 Richard Lynn: And we're also in the age of photography now for someone who has worked as I have in business for years and years and years and pre modern Chinese sources. 39 00:06:30.180 --> 00:06:39.840 Richard Lynn: This is a real novelty to be working in the age of photography and now with the Internet and the resources that we have on the Internet. 40 00:06:40.320 --> 00:06:52.200 Richard Lynn: The the access to such sources that one can get a really intimate look into the world of experience of the people involved in your research project. 41 00:06:52.620 --> 00:07:04.080 Richard Lynn: In a way, that just wasn't possible I mean we you know it's it's kind of ridiculous to say so but i've been working on go see on in the fourth century third, fourth century. 42 00:07:05.130 --> 00:07:06.540 Richard Lynn: His commentary on drums in. 43 00:07:07.830 --> 00:07:10.500 Richard Lynn: There it's we know hardly anything about him. 44 00:07:11.730 --> 00:07:20.790 Richard Lynn: Here, with funds and then not only we don't everything about in front of far too much to handle in a monograph, for instance, and we even have photographs. 45 00:07:22.350 --> 00:07:23.940 Richard Lynn: here's a formal portrait. 46 00:07:25.860 --> 00:07:40.290 Richard Lynn: Now there are two basic additions, I suppose, this is where anyone should start and working with with a poet, is to get a very clear idea of what the sources involved and the differences among them. 47 00:07:42.120 --> 00:07:49.860 Richard Lynn: And what are the general sort of areas of interest that the poet covers well in this case. 48 00:07:51.150 --> 00:07:54.630 Richard Lynn: These seem to be i've i've extracted these from. 49 00:07:55.800 --> 00:08:07.980 Richard Lynn: The translation work that i've been doing with the poems in those two editions they're all together 214 poems and I have so far translated about. 50 00:08:09.510 --> 00:08:19.350 Richard Lynn: 120 830 and these seem to be the categories that he's particularly interested in. 51 00:08:20.400 --> 00:08:33.780 Richard Lynn: And he's interested in this not for necessarily literary reasons whatsoever, as you can see from the list, this is really intellectual history or. 52 00:08:34.650 --> 00:08:51.750 Richard Lynn: The history of Chinese Japanese cultural relations that's how pawn is studied in Japan, and now, for the last generation at least studied in China identification of the Japanese, but the Chinese people all of this was. 53 00:08:54.150 --> 00:08:57.570 Richard Lynn: One was a reformer and he was. 54 00:08:58.590 --> 00:09:10.770 Richard Lynn: Part of the the bianchi child, you know reform movement of the kwangju era that was put to a an abrupt end in 1898 with the with the palace coo of the Emperor astrologer. 55 00:09:12.930 --> 00:09:26.820 Richard Lynn: Supported by young chakaipa and that put an end to it in 1898 he was almost if you were arrested, he was in Beijing, at the time he had been arrested, he would have been executed, along with hundreds of others. 56 00:09:28.110 --> 00:09:36.600 Richard Lynn: Fortunately, he was took refuge in the home of a Japanese diplomat, whom he had befriended years earlier when he was in Japan. 57 00:09:37.770 --> 00:09:38.280 Richard Lynn: His. 58 00:09:39.870 --> 00:09:52.680 Richard Lynn: Collection of poems and then later his work on Japanese history and the urban quarter the treatises on Japan, the first a history of Japan written in Chinese. 59 00:09:54.600 --> 00:10:09.570 Richard Lynn: The subtext of both was that the Japan modernization movement, the meiji restoration was a model for China and the China to follow it and to convince people of his day he started collecting. 60 00:10:10.620 --> 00:10:22.200 Richard Lynn: homes that he had written that grew out of his experience of his time in Japan between 1877 and 1982, and so the poems. 61 00:10:23.700 --> 00:10:29.220 Richard Lynn: are particularly interested in these topics identification of the Japanese with the Chinese people we are one people. 62 00:10:30.270 --> 00:10:38.880 Richard Lynn: The long history of China, Japan relations depend different but within the pail of Chinese culture on both the popular any lead levels, not just. 63 00:10:39.600 --> 00:10:52.920 Richard Lynn: You know, British in London levels but also popular culture Chinese and Japanese share a common high culture, of course, which the cylinders culture of ours, I borrowed the term from Peter bowls. 64 00:10:54.210 --> 00:11:08.310 Richard Lynn: He invented the term what 30 years ago by now and in Japanese it's pronounced Sue him or she went sorry sorry she she has she been i'm keeping my languages mixed up so when she born. 65 00:11:08.880 --> 00:11:20.850 Richard Lynn: And description of senior in historic sites that it's different from China, but not two different Japanese institutions and public space descriptions critiques and publications to reform and modernization. 66 00:11:22.560 --> 00:11:23.070 Richard Lynn: The. 67 00:11:24.630 --> 00:11:44.790 Richard Lynn: One was very, very interested in public space, which was at a minimum and in China that is public institutions museums hospitals public parks and the like, and then modernization and its cultural expression, the tradition modernization dynamic. 68 00:11:45.960 --> 00:11:59.160 Richard Lynn: Rather than dichotomy it's a dynamic and he explored both aspects, how to preserve tradition in the course of modernization, how to modernize by yet preserving tradition. 69 00:12:00.510 --> 00:12:02.610 Richard Lynn: Now songs attitude. 70 00:12:05.490 --> 00:12:12.660 Richard Lynn: of his contributions began in earnest in 1875 with the essential going shrimper. 71 00:12:14.790 --> 00:12:24.720 Richard Lynn: Besides practical efforts as diplomat in civil official he wrote these two great works, the urban Sasha and the urban Voyager. 72 00:12:26.610 --> 00:12:45.150 Richard Lynn: And these works, of course, as I mentioned grew out of his experience in Japan as counselor to the imperial Chinese location, this is the first foreign allegation the first embassy, that the King imperial Court set abroad, and it was to Tokyo. 73 00:12:47.010 --> 00:13:01.710 Richard Lynn: impressed with the meiji restoration is the political subtext of of both the historical we're here we're going to go after and his poems are the promotion of reform in China, with the meiji restoration as its model. 74 00:13:03.120 --> 00:13:07.710 Richard Lynn: and his association at was. 75 00:13:08.970 --> 00:13:17.940 Richard Lynn: very intimate and for the most part, on a personal level very, very friendly with leading political leaders in Japan. 76 00:13:18.510 --> 00:13:34.260 Richard Lynn: Even though the embassy that was sent to Tokyo in the first place was there to enter into negotiations over the real Q islands and Korea, both of which were contested areas of political. 77 00:13:36.030 --> 00:13:36.870 Richard Lynn: influence. 78 00:13:37.890 --> 00:13:48.120 Richard Lynn: contested between China and Japan, and they were disastrous eventually for the Chinese point of view, the Japanese got their way over both. 79 00:13:48.780 --> 00:14:01.860 Richard Lynn: And kong's position on this is outlined in a in a formal essay that he wrote submitted first to his ambassador, who john and then made its way and to. 80 00:14:02.730 --> 00:14:18.540 Richard Lynn: The channels to the Japanese Foreign Office that China and Japan should unite together to withstand the pressure of Western imperialism and they were particularly interested in those days. 81 00:14:19.980 --> 00:14:25.800 Richard Lynn: With the threat of Russia Imperial Russia in the Far East and. 82 00:14:27.570 --> 00:14:39.000 Richard Lynn: Well, it didn't happen as we will know, and there is a tragedy in the making, and eventually it unfolded in that direction, but in the meantime we had this very friendly. 83 00:14:40.230 --> 00:14:43.770 Richard Lynn: When or in what engine circle in Tokyo. 84 00:14:45.420 --> 00:14:53.250 Richard Lynn: In which found himself participated and some of the very highest ranking officials in Japan. 85 00:14:54.510 --> 00:14:55.680 Richard Lynn: took part in as well. 86 00:14:56.910 --> 00:14:57.450 Richard Lynn: Now. 87 00:14:58.710 --> 00:15:01.770 Richard Lynn: Here are some of them, this is the man who. 88 00:15:03.960 --> 00:15:08.340 Richard Lynn: welcomed the Chinese when they first arrived in Japan. 89 00:15:09.720 --> 00:15:21.540 Richard Lynn: In late 1877 they came by ship from China and they first came into Yokohama which was linked by a new railway to. 90 00:15:22.770 --> 00:15:31.470 Richard Lynn: downtown Tokyo close to the other embassies, the imperial palace, and the Japanese official buildings. 91 00:15:33.030 --> 00:15:48.030 Richard Lynn: They tried that for a while and this was a man who first met them and became quite close friends with function himself and i've these photographs of these Japanese figures are quite interesting. 92 00:15:49.110 --> 00:15:53.220 Richard Lynn: The one on the far left here, this is the same band. 93 00:15:54.900 --> 00:16:03.060 Richard Lynn: aging as yes it is it goes on, I could probably have tracked down a photo of this man in his old age, but. 94 00:16:04.170 --> 00:16:09.540 Richard Lynn: Anyway, here is a boy actually when he was a court. 95 00:16:10.620 --> 00:16:29.970 Richard Lynn: Page or something at the imperial court this isn't before the the restoration had occurred and his father was a high ranking official in the court of the imperial court that's the Chinese Emperor the Japanese Emperor at this time was in Kyoto and gene do not in Jane Jane was still. 96 00:16:32.280 --> 00:16:32.670 Richard Lynn: Adult. 97 00:16:34.320 --> 00:16:34.890 Richard Lynn: jungle. 98 00:16:36.450 --> 00:16:46.080 Richard Lynn: He then participated in the restoration and eventually wound up as a very high official Chief Secretary and the Foreign Office. 99 00:16:47.130 --> 00:16:47.670 Richard Lynn: Now. 100 00:16:48.960 --> 00:16:49.440 Richard Lynn: i've got. 101 00:16:50.550 --> 00:16:59.640 Richard Lynn: All of this information about the negotiations and what's important is that there was a clear distinction between his relations with the. 102 00:17:00.150 --> 00:17:11.130 Richard Lynn: Japanese guests on a political or an official level distinguished from his personal relations is none official relations were extremely cordial and mutually rewarding. 103 00:17:13.890 --> 00:17:19.350 Richard Lynn: And then the works, but before we get that word about this whole project. 104 00:17:20.820 --> 00:17:25.740 Richard Lynn: One of my teachers at princeton was marius Jensen, who was a. 105 00:17:27.150 --> 00:17:39.510 Richard Lynn: historian and spent much of his career studying the meiji restoration and largely from its dominant discourse perspective that is westernization and modernization. 106 00:17:40.680 --> 00:18:01.950 Richard Lynn: He thought that consumption and the people he associated with on a personal level, it was sort of a dead end they didn't go anywhere, they were the kind of cultural conservatives who are more interested in preserving tradition than in advancing the progress of modernization and westernization. 107 00:18:05.190 --> 00:18:13.860 Richard Lynn: So this in a way, is is as a study of a of a sideline or a marginalized aspect of history. 108 00:18:14.940 --> 00:18:28.680 Richard Lynn: it's certainly not the main theme of Beijing japan's Japan studies Nevertheless, I think it's important because it reveals some very I think Poignant. 109 00:18:31.110 --> 00:18:43.920 Richard Lynn: experiences of intellectuals who were interested in in things of a real humanistic nature, not necessarily political or even. 110 00:18:44.580 --> 00:18:54.660 Richard Lynn: To be approached from a social science point of view, but certainly a humanistic point of view so here's the additions, this is the first edition 1879. 111 00:18:55.440 --> 00:19:15.630 Richard Lynn: It comes from Senator bronco the synaptic K shoe collection Professor so NATO is probably the foremost or was you died in 1985 the foremost scholar of Chinese Japanese cultural relations in the 19th century, and to the early 20th century. 112 00:19:17.520 --> 00:19:22.260 Richard Lynn: He had no immediate following in Japan, but his works are now being quite. 113 00:19:25.530 --> 00:19:29.850 Richard Lynn: seriously explored by both Chinese and Japanese scholars. 114 00:19:31.110 --> 00:19:39.540 Richard Lynn: The work was published by the tone when gone and official publication of the foreign languages totally arman affairs office. 115 00:19:40.890 --> 00:19:46.800 Richard Lynn: And here's the title page and the year publication. 116 00:19:48.180 --> 00:19:54.690 Richard Lynn: And here immediately in the next year there were other additions published in Japan, this one. 117 00:19:55.920 --> 00:20:00.360 Richard Lynn: Excuse me, as a punctuated and with Japanese. 118 00:20:03.420 --> 00:20:17.880 Richard Lynn: Reading notations how to read it in Japanese word order which I have never learned to do, I thought it's just crazy to turn classical Chinese literary Chinese into Japanese word order, it seems to be. 119 00:20:19.440 --> 00:20:29.190 Richard Lynn: A very difficult and roundabout way of doing it and Japanese works for done at this time and a word should be said for those of you who don't know it. 120 00:20:30.240 --> 00:20:46.590 Richard Lynn: This Japanese Chinese literary culture in the later 19th century in Japan was ubiquitous every educated person not only could read literary Chinese they could compose in it, including poetry. 121 00:20:47.730 --> 00:20:51.660 Richard Lynn: Much like in the old days and maybe even still, in some cases. 122 00:20:53.580 --> 00:21:03.750 Richard Lynn: Oxford, Cambridge undergraduates you know, being able to compose Greek ancient poetry and ancient Greek and Latin, and so forth. 123 00:21:05.220 --> 00:21:19.860 Richard Lynn: Okay, this is the 1898 edition, this is the larger the revised edition, it was finished in 1890 prefacing stated, but long had trouble getting it published by the time when gone by that time. 124 00:21:20.970 --> 00:21:25.350 Richard Lynn: There was a real opposition growing within official circles in China. 125 00:21:26.430 --> 00:21:27.450 Richard Lynn: Leading up to. 126 00:21:28.470 --> 00:21:31.050 Richard Lynn: The 1898 cool. 127 00:21:33.780 --> 00:21:41.490 Richard Lynn: But he did get it published in china shop where he had become part of the progressive provincial government at that point. 128 00:21:44.400 --> 00:21:56.700 Richard Lynn: Time the modern works, these are the three most important works, and I suppose, this is the next stage to go once you determine the additions to be used in research. 129 00:21:57.840 --> 00:22:03.570 Richard Lynn: what's available among modern contemporary works that are particularly helpful. 130 00:22:04.620 --> 00:22:06.390 Richard Lynn: This edition in. 131 00:22:08.070 --> 00:22:11.610 Richard Lynn: The the so this young should get some true series. 132 00:22:13.290 --> 00:22:19.950 Richard Lynn: is published in eight and 1985 This includes a punctuated. 133 00:22:21.510 --> 00:22:26.610 Richard Lynn: Simplified character 20 it's a version of all the poems that the 200 homes in the. 134 00:22:27.930 --> 00:22:46.020 Richard Lynn: 154 palms in the 1879 addition there are 200 poems and then overlap, of course, a great deal in the 1890 edition, and in addition to that, the the the quan drew the expanded commentaries what this means essentially is. 135 00:22:47.670 --> 00:23:06.630 Richard Lynn: A correlation of the commentaries that Huang wrote to his own poems included in the 1879 addition with the similar in entries, which are much larger and sometimes in the urban quarter, the history of Japan that he also wrote. 136 00:23:10.680 --> 00:23:13.020 Richard Lynn: syndication and a collaborator. 137 00:23:15.300 --> 00:23:16.320 Richard Lynn: Toyota minoru. 138 00:23:17.970 --> 00:23:30.270 Richard Lynn: published a complete translation of the 200 poems and the poems that were not included in the 1890 edition, but we're in the 1879 addition. 139 00:23:31.920 --> 00:23:45.870 Richard Lynn: They all of them are there, and this has gone through many printings it's still in print and Tokyo that a bomb shot, one of the largest Japanese publishers, it was first done in 1943 or during the war. 140 00:23:47.550 --> 00:23:48.630 Richard Lynn: and more recently. 141 00:23:49.920 --> 00:23:58.740 Richard Lynn: beginning in 1995 and continuing to this day, is a group at Kobe university Chicago share Kobe Kobe tiger. 142 00:24:00.480 --> 00:24:09.540 Richard Lynn: A group, which consists of both Chinese and Japanese scholars who work at the Department of Chinese literature and called the university. 143 00:24:10.080 --> 00:24:23.340 Richard Lynn: This comes out in and installments published in a local journal published at the university me may wayman, I suppose, they got this from winning who, which is on the beta campus, of course. 144 00:24:24.450 --> 00:24:36.450 Richard Lynn: not yet named waiting for a name anyway it's I find that very helpful to these are the three works that I use as secondary literature helping me in my work. 145 00:24:37.470 --> 00:24:45.060 Richard Lynn: Now this is how I got started in the first place, the review Article of jury schmidt's book and then I wrote various. 146 00:24:45.990 --> 00:24:57.510 Richard Lynn: articles which associated function with the both movements in China and Japan and cultural intellectual history and. 147 00:24:58.260 --> 00:25:09.060 Richard Lynn: Finally, is the work that i'm doing now for Oxford University press it's in their new translation series of of classical Chinese works. 148 00:25:09.780 --> 00:25:22.230 Richard Lynn: i'm particularly happy with the Royal Asiatic society they gave me a word for this, it was rejected, I was part of a conference at rice University of Texas in Houston. 149 00:25:22.830 --> 00:25:33.270 Richard Lynn: In the journal nonu it was rejected because it wasn't theoretical enough anyway, I decided i'm not going to change anything i'll try to publish it somewhere else, so I took it to the. 150 00:25:33.990 --> 00:25:41.340 Richard Lynn: The real easy attics society of which i'm a member and they published it in 2007 and and and I won the prize for it. 151 00:25:42.450 --> 00:25:44.760 Richard Lynn: So much for lack of theory. 152 00:25:46.020 --> 00:25:52.020 Richard Lynn: Now let's go on to some general considerations about translating Chinese poetry. 153 00:25:54.510 --> 00:26:11.910 Richard Lynn: This is almost archaeological it's you know from the 1970s 77 and 78 how long ago, this was, though it to me, of course, it seems rather recent there was an exchange in the journal of Asian studies between may 77 and August 78. 154 00:26:13.410 --> 00:26:33.990 Richard Lynn: Involving three people Jonathan chaves at shaffer and me, I first brought out this review Article and chaves didn't like a lot of it in it, so he responded with a rejoinder but unfortunately he used an expression. 155 00:26:35.490 --> 00:26:49.320 Richard Lynn: That he claimed Professor schaefer would say now I advise any young scholar don't go after some established older scholar and expect to get away with unscathed. 156 00:26:50.610 --> 00:27:03.030 Richard Lynn: And you'll see what happened to Jonathan, who is a good old friend and shaffer and schaefer was a colleague, when I taught at uc Berkeley briefly in the 1990s. 157 00:27:04.830 --> 00:27:10.440 Richard Lynn: Anyway, this is how it eventually evolved this exchange. 158 00:27:11.640 --> 00:27:13.170 Richard Lynn: I complained about. 159 00:27:14.190 --> 00:27:16.080 Richard Lynn: chaves translations being. 160 00:27:17.220 --> 00:27:21.960 Richard Lynn: too much of a paraphrase and that he ignored the grammar. 161 00:27:23.610 --> 00:27:27.330 Richard Lynn: Well, this set off a controversy. 162 00:27:29.850 --> 00:27:30.780 Richard Lynn: largely. 163 00:27:32.520 --> 00:27:41.640 Richard Lynn: Along these lines, if you i'm not going to read this if i'll leave it on the screen long enough for people to skim it at least um. 164 00:27:44.730 --> 00:27:55.710 Richard Lynn: I maintain for the high tongue style, in particular, that a lot of of verbs and Chinese. 165 00:27:56.850 --> 00:27:59.580 Richard Lynn: Are causative putative. 166 00:28:02.580 --> 00:28:05.640 Richard Lynn: and not simply transitive intransitive. 167 00:28:07.110 --> 00:28:07.950 Richard Lynn: And that. 168 00:28:10.140 --> 00:28:11.820 Richard Lynn: Instead of trying to. 169 00:28:13.290 --> 00:28:14.610 Richard Lynn: Control construe. 170 00:28:16.290 --> 00:28:23.700 Richard Lynn: verb object word order, we have something far more complicated going on. 171 00:28:24.720 --> 00:28:25.290 Richard Lynn: and 172 00:28:26.310 --> 00:28:33.060 Richard Lynn: it's the you know word order is all important and without it there's chaos and effect. 173 00:28:34.560 --> 00:28:36.690 Richard Lynn: Or, as chaves would have. 174 00:28:40.350 --> 00:28:42.360 Richard Lynn: So much ambiguity and. 175 00:28:43.500 --> 00:28:50.460 Richard Lynn: Arbitrary word choice on the part of the original Chinese poets that an English translator, for instance. 176 00:28:55.320 --> 00:28:56.730 Richard Lynn: The dry throat this morning. 177 00:29:02.520 --> 00:29:11.580 Richard Lynn: That it's it's so arbitrary that an English translator can rearrange the word order any way that he feels it's right and chase has done this largely. 178 00:29:12.270 --> 00:29:34.740 Richard Lynn: his whole career with usually rather good results, but he's very sensitive to this, and he argues about it, he has argued about it for most of his career, not only with me with schaefer but with other people as well anyway here is the essential issues involved. 179 00:29:37.020 --> 00:29:40.710 Richard Lynn: And I you can look at these. 180 00:29:42.960 --> 00:29:44.010 Richard Lynn: Let me go back. 181 00:29:45.600 --> 00:29:58.320 Richard Lynn: You can look at these up here is the references to them they're easily found, especially if you have Internet connection to the database for the journal of Asian studies they're easily had, and you can download them. 182 00:30:06.390 --> 00:30:12.270 Richard Lynn: This is where he starts to argue with Professor schaefer and claim that schaefer. 183 00:30:13.620 --> 00:30:21.510 Richard Lynn: If we follow schaefer In fact we end up with a truly you know too many causative verbs the result in in in. 184 00:30:23.730 --> 00:30:24.930 Richard Lynn: bizarre readings. 185 00:30:26.700 --> 00:30:35.670 Richard Lynn: I don't think they're bizarre at all I think they're often mostly rather interesting far more interesting than what he does by rearranging it into a rather more. 186 00:30:37.980 --> 00:30:41.280 Richard Lynn: Will you call it vernacular narrative style of translated. 187 00:30:42.720 --> 00:30:43.230 Richard Lynn: Now. 188 00:30:45.840 --> 00:30:49.020 Richard Lynn: This is shaffer's response. 189 00:30:50.490 --> 00:30:51.420 Richard Lynn: Now leave that on. 190 00:30:52.500 --> 00:30:54.570 Richard Lynn: The screen for a few minutes. 191 00:30:56.100 --> 00:30:56.730 Richard Lynn: That he. 192 00:30:58.170 --> 00:31:02.400 Richard Lynn: Attacks reap you know when a rather rather clever way, I think. 193 00:31:05.460 --> 00:31:06.540 Richard Lynn: chaves position. 194 00:31:08.220 --> 00:31:08.850 Richard Lynn: Now. 195 00:31:10.050 --> 00:31:10.920 Richard Lynn: i'm going to move on. 196 00:31:12.090 --> 00:31:20.250 Richard Lynn: I hope this is all available later essence is being recorded and you can stop the recording and read this more at your leisure. 197 00:31:22.080 --> 00:31:23.160 Richard Lynn: This is. 198 00:31:24.270 --> 00:31:28.290 Richard Lynn: A good example that sums up the problem I think succinctly. 199 00:31:30.030 --> 00:31:31.050 Richard Lynn: So do food pong. 200 00:31:33.810 --> 00:31:35.760 Richard Lynn: I would translate it this way. 201 00:31:39.960 --> 00:31:51.390 Richard Lynn: mud so plant, it keeps swallows flying sansa warm it puts to sleep Mandarin ducks Now this is to respect the word order. 202 00:31:52.590 --> 00:31:54.210 Richard Lynn: That we get. 203 00:31:58.410 --> 00:32:00.780 Richard Lynn: verb object verb object. 204 00:32:02.040 --> 00:32:08.790 Richard Lynn: Now, I think, Jonathan has translated this rather differently, it would say. 205 00:32:10.350 --> 00:32:12.720 Richard Lynn: Something like the mud soft. 206 00:32:14.760 --> 00:32:15.930 Richard Lynn: swallows fly. 207 00:32:17.430 --> 00:32:20.070 Richard Lynn: sand and warm is the sand is warm. 208 00:32:22.110 --> 00:32:23.640 Richard Lynn: and on it. 209 00:32:25.050 --> 00:32:35.070 Richard Lynn: Mandarin duck sleep well, you are this is to rearrange the word order, and I think the result is perhaps. 210 00:32:37.410 --> 00:32:51.150 Richard Lynn: Well it's it's possible, I suppose, but it seems so flat compared to this rather lively, the idea is the mud is so planted keep swallows flying why because swallows build nests out of mud. 211 00:32:52.830 --> 00:32:56.550 Richard Lynn: And it's in a perfect condition for. 212 00:32:58.530 --> 00:33:04.830 Richard Lynn: Gathering by the birds that they take advantage of this moment of of. 213 00:33:06.000 --> 00:33:10.290 Richard Lynn: convenient gathering, so they keep flying back and forth, to the mud banks to get the mud. 214 00:33:11.340 --> 00:33:25.740 Richard Lynn: And the sand is so warm that it puts them to sleep rather than they simply sleep on it anyway, this such syntactic constructions and notice that it's also extremely strictly. 215 00:33:27.180 --> 00:33:38.700 Richard Lynn: Parallel in the constructions one line to the next, these causative verbs and strict parallelism now these seem largely avoided by one some shenton self. 216 00:33:39.540 --> 00:33:54.930 Richard Lynn: This surprised me when I got into preparing this part of the presentation, I went back in and skim through all the translations i'd already done and I just couldn't find any and I realized that the song was really. 217 00:33:56.070 --> 00:34:02.010 Richard Lynn: Then I thought well what kind of traditional poetry was one solution working in well, he was working in the. 218 00:34:04.350 --> 00:34:10.770 Richard Lynn: expression as the singling I from the Ching dynasty there's associated with. 219 00:34:13.140 --> 00:34:31.950 Richard Lynn: You and may and then before him the going on pi the young brothers and the end of the main and they in turn champion some dynasty poetry, especially the late rather vernacular posey kind of poetry of the young one lead so forth well. 220 00:34:33.750 --> 00:34:35.280 Richard Lynn: I said i've come up with a. 221 00:34:36.420 --> 00:34:38.160 Richard Lynn: conclusion that. 222 00:34:39.750 --> 00:34:41.340 Richard Lynn: That this kind of of. 223 00:34:42.780 --> 00:34:46.260 Richard Lynn: Tang Dynasty compressed highly. 224 00:34:47.400 --> 00:34:50.220 Richard Lynn: involved syntactically. 225 00:34:51.330 --> 00:34:53.730 Richard Lynn: Rigorous poetry. 226 00:34:54.990 --> 00:35:13.800 Richard Lynn: This is one of the characteristics of be tongue style and on some Shen simply didn't work in it being in the roughly some dynasty style of writing poetry and prose and poetry anyway, I went through all the poems and fun submission and I came across one that might. 227 00:35:15.360 --> 00:35:23.850 Richard Lynn: But isn't an example and it occurs in the second line okay. 228 00:35:25.020 --> 00:35:39.390 Richard Lynn: Well, here, we do have a verb before an possible object, but it doesn't really work, because the says era, which is important it's 4343438 and it is rather parallel. 229 00:35:39.930 --> 00:35:52.590 Richard Lynn: In that sense, anyway, and it really belongs to a phrase that ends here and I did it this way and lyrics of lovely spring sung as a string of of attributes. 230 00:35:53.910 --> 00:35:54.060 It. 231 00:35:55.530 --> 00:36:10.590 Richard Lynn: sounds spring outings so young people, and he calls them Sally ocean little roaming transcendence and I prefer transcendence following the habits of our taoist. 232 00:36:11.790 --> 00:36:25.140 Richard Lynn: scholars these days they've rejected the the old fashioned immortals because not doesn't exactly mean that transcendence is the preferred way with them and so i've adopted it myself. 233 00:36:25.980 --> 00:36:32.730 Richard Lynn: Anyway, that's the closest we could get and even that isn't supported by the structure of the lines themselves. 234 00:36:33.750 --> 00:36:40.860 Richard Lynn: And this, by the way, is how the phones will be presented in the Oxford University press book that i'm bearing. 235 00:36:41.910 --> 00:37:04.830 Richard Lynn: The main phone number is the 1890 addition the one in brackets is the number of the poem in the 1879 edition that's if the same poem appears in both additions and this one happens to do so, and this is followed by one zone shen's own pros commentary. 236 00:37:06.660 --> 00:37:10.650 Richard Lynn: It must have occurred to him quite early as he developed this these poems. 237 00:37:12.240 --> 00:37:25.860 Richard Lynn: That it would need a great deal of explanation for Chinese reading audience this one doesn't necessarily but many others do with because they contain Japanese place names personal names. 238 00:37:27.150 --> 00:37:36.870 Richard Lynn: References to Japanese history, all of which would not have been familiar who his contemporary Chinese audience for which the poems are of course presented. 239 00:37:37.920 --> 00:37:42.900 Richard Lynn: Following the wrong commentary, which translates this. 240 00:37:44.610 --> 00:37:50.040 Richard Lynn: occurs my own footnotes tracking down illusions and so forth, and that's what happens here. 241 00:37:51.390 --> 00:37:54.510 Richard Lynn: And here is the Kobe group, this is how they do it. 242 00:37:57.030 --> 00:37:59.640 Richard Lynn: This is the turning it into. 243 00:38:00.810 --> 00:38:01.140 Richard Lynn: A. 244 00:38:02.370 --> 00:38:06.450 Richard Lynn: literary China Japanese which helps at least two. 245 00:38:08.460 --> 00:38:09.510 Richard Lynn: punctuate and. 246 00:38:13.440 --> 00:38:25.890 Richard Lynn: How it scans and how it's divided up into grammatical syntactic units and then he translates a the the pros into. 247 00:38:28.110 --> 00:38:34.560 Richard Lynn: over here, he just tried to translate they translate the the pros passage with explanations. 248 00:38:36.090 --> 00:38:44.160 Richard Lynn: it's all helpful but it's not the last word it's just one step towards you know the final version that that I myself am working up. 249 00:38:44.910 --> 00:38:56.580 Richard Lynn: The colby group is far more detailed in fact to detail they tracked down every reference and which many of much of which I think is superfluous, so I don't use them all. 250 00:38:57.780 --> 00:39:11.130 Richard Lynn: And they do one thing that is helpful in some regards but it's hardly a translation, that is, they paraphrase in modern Japanese what the lines of poetry mean. 251 00:39:12.930 --> 00:39:15.030 Richard Lynn: it's helpful but it's not a translation. 252 00:39:17.670 --> 00:39:39.630 Richard Lynn: And this is common, of course, in China, to the Di E, the general idea approach, where you turn a poem into kind of a prose paraphrase they're all very interesting and helpful, but they certainly aren't translations that tried to preserve the syntactic structures of the original. 253 00:39:41.280 --> 00:39:42.150 Richard Lynn: And it goes on. 254 00:39:43.620 --> 00:39:45.660 Richard Lynn: it's number 113. 255 00:39:47.340 --> 00:39:47.760 Richard Lynn: Now. 256 00:39:49.200 --> 00:39:59.820 Richard Lynn: i'm a novelty for me is being able to visit places in Japan, where all of this came from. 257 00:40:01.470 --> 00:40:02.190 Richard Lynn: and 258 00:40:04.350 --> 00:40:06.780 Richard Lynn: I came to this temple. 259 00:40:08.130 --> 00:40:20.880 Richard Lynn: At the northern edge of Tokyo on a trip a few quite a few years ago now, where a tombstone is erected which is. 260 00:40:22.080 --> 00:40:25.740 Richard Lynn: A tombstone for the tuned homes. 261 00:40:28.830 --> 00:40:30.870 Richard Lynn: And that means the. 262 00:40:32.490 --> 00:40:36.510 Richard Lynn: draft of the poems that one solution rope. 263 00:40:38.400 --> 00:40:40.830 Richard Lynn: And it's in a grounds of a temple. 264 00:40:43.410 --> 00:40:44.160 Richard Lynn: that's this temple. 265 00:40:46.050 --> 00:40:56.370 Richard Lynn: This is at the extreme sort of metropolitan edge of Tokyo out in the country really but it's still connected to downtown Tokyo with. 266 00:40:57.780 --> 00:40:59.880 Richard Lynn: The with the public, bus system. 267 00:41:02.250 --> 00:41:03.870 Richard Lynn: Now the. 268 00:41:06.270 --> 00:41:13.590 Richard Lynn: see this is number four This is where that little thing is that the tomb stone. 269 00:41:15.840 --> 00:41:18.540 Richard Lynn: And it's there because of. 270 00:41:19.860 --> 00:41:26.220 Richard Lynn: The man who is pub whose tomb is here way in the back that's this man. 271 00:41:27.960 --> 00:41:28.860 Richard Lynn: doheny. 272 00:41:30.840 --> 00:41:31.440 Richard Lynn: We shun. 273 00:41:33.060 --> 00:41:36.840 Richard Lynn: His grave that's oh coach he Tetra not in Japanese. 274 00:41:38.640 --> 00:41:46.050 Richard Lynn: And this is the inscription on that stone which is. 275 00:41:47.100 --> 00:42:06.630 Richard Lynn: off the path and there's a little Bamboo fence barrier you can't get close enough to see it closely anyway, this was a rubbing made back in the 1940s, and this is the transcription so it's in it's in literary Chinese so it's easily read. 276 00:42:07.830 --> 00:42:09.480 Richard Lynn: And this is a translation. 277 00:42:11.520 --> 00:42:12.060 Richard Lynn: Now. 278 00:42:14.310 --> 00:42:16.170 Richard Lynn: it's written by. 279 00:42:18.180 --> 00:42:19.200 Richard Lynn: A coach eternal. 280 00:42:20.520 --> 00:42:21.330 Richard Lynn: that's this man. 281 00:42:22.500 --> 00:42:28.860 Richard Lynn: And it's an expression or it's rather an account of how the poems written and why. 282 00:42:30.390 --> 00:42:36.480 Richard Lynn: This this tombstone was erected so i'll give you a moment to look at it. 283 00:42:38.640 --> 00:42:43.860 Richard Lynn: Most important thing about it is that it's in a tradition of burying. 284 00:42:45.780 --> 00:42:50.400 Richard Lynn: literary work that's a little toys literary works or. 285 00:42:51.600 --> 00:43:08.910 Richard Lynn: Famous calligraphers brushes when they've worn out give them a decent burial anyway, this is what was done by been some shen's at for one submissions poems when he completed the first draft, and it went off to the publisher at the tone when Guan and China. 286 00:43:10.230 --> 00:43:18.330 Richard Lynn: Now he refers to continually is going to come to is the data, the personal name of contribution. 287 00:43:20.340 --> 00:43:26.820 Richard Lynn: And the the inscription goes on, so apparently there was a party. 288 00:43:28.680 --> 00:43:29.280 Richard Lynn: and 289 00:43:32.610 --> 00:43:35.550 Richard Lynn: We were half wrapped with wine country. 290 00:43:37.020 --> 00:43:49.020 Richard Lynn: And I remember talking with my own teacher Funk leroy James to do that Member, he asked me, you know what do I thought about it a polite way to. 291 00:43:49.590 --> 00:44:09.030 Richard Lynn: Say drunk when you're when the term to a period say and poetry, and we settled on wrapped with wine, I hope that works to be half wrapped with wine so you're feeling jolly and and kind of high with the drink, but not too much of it. 292 00:44:10.110 --> 00:44:18.240 Richard Lynn: Anyway, and this is how the inscription ends and the people who attended this party. 293 00:44:20.220 --> 00:44:25.110 Richard Lynn: are largely people from the Chinese Embassy, as well as some of. 294 00:44:26.550 --> 00:44:29.790 Richard Lynn: The other when run or the engine circle that. 295 00:44:31.230 --> 00:44:32.190 Richard Lynn: On belong to him. 296 00:44:33.600 --> 00:44:37.020 Richard Lynn: Now this is Mr or coach Ted and I himself. 297 00:44:38.310 --> 00:44:45.690 Richard Lynn: He was a very influential man for a time in his own day. 298 00:44:46.830 --> 00:44:48.630 Richard Lynn: He was a a. 299 00:44:49.890 --> 00:44:55.620 Richard Lynn: A lord of a large fief the total Gala regime. 300 00:44:57.960 --> 00:44:58.470 Richard Lynn: and 301 00:44:59.490 --> 00:45:02.880 Richard Lynn: governed Japan 17th 18th and. 302 00:45:04.800 --> 00:45:06.270 Richard Lynn: Half of the 19th century. 303 00:45:08.010 --> 00:45:19.020 Richard Lynn: ran a rather feudal system and large domains were had domain lords and he was one as a very young man he inherited. 304 00:45:23.070 --> 00:45:27.660 Richard Lynn: And here, he is in that garb with his samurai sword. 305 00:45:29.280 --> 00:45:36.720 Richard Lynn: And he decided to use the wealth of his domain, which was a very wealthy when it's North East of Tokyo. 306 00:45:37.260 --> 00:45:53.760 Richard Lynn: to modernize he put together a modern well equipped Western style army standing army I think of 5000 men and hired a French captain of of artillery to to to run it. 307 00:45:54.720 --> 00:46:23.310 Richard Lynn: And for a time it looked like he might have been against the restoration, the revolution and would try to protect the total go a regime which he was a sworn follower but he didn't He threw his lot in with the with the reformers and briefly became head of the new major government army. 308 00:46:25.650 --> 00:46:27.660 Richard Lynn: Here, he is in a military uniform. 309 00:46:29.910 --> 00:46:33.480 Richard Lynn: And then he becomes a Chinese style scholar. 310 00:46:35.670 --> 00:46:38.580 Richard Lynn: When he was the leader of the. 311 00:46:40.320 --> 00:46:50.490 Richard Lynn: Or the head of the faith he had an income of 10,000 bushels of grain of rice. 312 00:46:52.230 --> 00:47:15.390 Richard Lynn: After he there, the restoration and all these domains returned into into provinces, he was, like the other leaders of or the domain lords they became governors and his salary was 500 bushels he decided it was not worth it. 313 00:47:16.530 --> 00:47:19.830 Richard Lynn: Now this other photo is his son. 314 00:47:21.240 --> 00:47:26.490 Richard Lynn: and his wife photo taken in the 1920s and. 315 00:47:27.720 --> 00:47:28.890 Richard Lynn: Of course you kiko. 316 00:47:30.090 --> 00:47:37.770 Richard Lynn: is important in this story, because he knew about the massive. 317 00:47:40.320 --> 00:47:47.160 Richard Lynn: it's a damn big time rush talks that his father had kept. 318 00:47:48.630 --> 00:48:03.090 Richard Lynn: Recording all the conversations and experience of describing the experiences over about five years, which included consumption, these have all been published recently in China. 319 00:48:04.650 --> 00:48:06.090 Richard Lynn: They were preserved in. 320 00:48:07.290 --> 00:48:20.130 Richard Lynn: The rare book collection of why say the university in Tokyo, but they had been preserved originally after this man's death he died in his late 30s of alcoholism, he wasn't terribly. 321 00:48:21.450 --> 00:48:30.660 Richard Lynn: Bad drinker and he died in 1882 of the year that on some Shen left Japan or his next posting in San Francisco is Consul General there. 322 00:48:32.580 --> 00:48:42.960 Richard Lynn: it's almost as if he had nothing else left to live for him, because he had so had such a intimate cultural relationship and friendship with automation. 323 00:48:43.500 --> 00:48:56.700 Richard Lynn: Anyway, he had kept this enormous drop you know it's 10,000 it's what is it eight eight huge bound volumes it's here on my shelf can't see it it's in the corner over there. 324 00:48:57.750 --> 00:48:59.880 Richard Lynn: there's about 10,000 pages of this stuff. 325 00:49:00.960 --> 00:49:02.520 Richard Lynn: on the backs of menus. 326 00:49:03.720 --> 00:49:15.450 Richard Lynn: scraps of paper all sorts of things, anyway, these were preserved out in the temple, but when sonny the key issue was studying all this back in the 1940s. 327 00:49:16.980 --> 00:49:19.770 Richard Lynn: He was puzzled because it was this this. 328 00:49:21.750 --> 00:49:33.060 Richard Lynn: steely inscription inscribed steely in the temple ground said that on the banks of the sumida river the semi the River isn't anywhere near this temple it's actually. 329 00:49:34.740 --> 00:49:37.350 Richard Lynn: In downtown Tokyo and. 330 00:49:38.880 --> 00:49:43.500 Richard Lynn: He went actually to visit the son of have. 331 00:49:44.610 --> 00:49:51.060 Richard Lynn: Of course you turn it on or could you kiko and asked him about it, and he said yes, that was here in our garden. 332 00:49:52.710 --> 00:50:11.940 Richard Lynn: But when the House was destroyed in the 1923 earthquake, the condo great earthquake of 23 were much of Tokyo burned down, as well as being destroyed that's the one we're frank Lloyd wright's imperial hotel survived where everything else fell down all around it. 333 00:50:14.010 --> 00:50:18.090 Richard Lynn: And then the developers tore down anyway in the 1960s late 60s. 334 00:50:20.820 --> 00:50:31.980 Richard Lynn: that's another story internally, of course, anyway, said well used to be here, but we moved everything out to the temple where he's buried and, by the way, I think there's a lot of his. 335 00:50:33.750 --> 00:50:39.750 Richard Lynn: Old books or something out there to in the storage room so today the case, who went out there. 336 00:50:41.040 --> 00:50:45.210 Richard Lynn: During the warriors took him hours to get out there and. 337 00:50:46.530 --> 00:50:53.070 Richard Lynn: found that there was indeed this this huge pile of of of of. 338 00:50:54.150 --> 00:50:57.240 Richard Lynn: stitched volumes so toxic and Japanese. 339 00:50:58.590 --> 00:51:04.830 Richard Lynn: But they many of them were were moldering away and being eaten by bugs and whatnot and a very damp. 340 00:51:06.990 --> 00:51:16.800 Richard Lynn: stone storage place and i've seen some of this in the original I saw they're all preserved in less at university. 341 00:51:17.250 --> 00:51:27.510 Richard Lynn: And it's interesting that many of these pages are our bug eaten around the edges, but the main part of the pages intact and that was because. 342 00:51:27.960 --> 00:51:45.990 Richard Lynn: A big leaf of tobacco was placed between the pages and that fended off the bugs and preserved it anyway, he took all this stuff back and he was a professor of history was at university in those days, and he preserved there and now published. 343 00:51:48.000 --> 00:51:59.760 Richard Lynn: Now, when the Chinese first arrived in Tokyo they arrived and in they stayed they thought they could conduct business from the ship they came on. 344 00:52:00.300 --> 00:52:11.580 Richard Lynn: And Yokohama harbor and commute by the new railway and to Tokyo well that they gave up that idea because it was too time consuming and inconvenient. 345 00:52:12.390 --> 00:52:36.720 Richard Lynn: And so they moved into a the you had yet sun sun, you had the case so in the moon realm monks quarters, and that was in the precincts the general belongings of the great pure land Buddhist temple the function, so the XO geology and Sheba. 346 00:52:37.770 --> 00:52:39.630 Richard Lynn: which no longer exists may not. 347 00:52:40.650 --> 00:52:52.230 Richard Lynn: have gone cool the harbor district anyway, this is a contemporary photo of the late 1870s really it's out in the country there. 348 00:52:54.480 --> 00:52:57.060 Richard Lynn: And this is another shot from an angle. 349 00:52:58.860 --> 00:53:03.030 Richard Lynn: And, and this is the main temple from a 19 one map. 350 00:53:04.620 --> 00:53:09.900 Richard Lynn: And this is the main the the the the gentleman right here and their. 351 00:53:13.200 --> 00:53:15.270 Richard Lynn: Residence was over here the Chinese Embassy. 352 00:53:16.860 --> 00:53:31.350 Richard Lynn: In in in but it's now by 19 when they sold off land for a factory, this is the graveyard that was attached to the the that part of the temple of the sub temple that was used to be here at this point. 353 00:53:33.000 --> 00:53:38.130 Richard Lynn: And this is a poem that handsome Shen wrote about that place. 354 00:53:40.980 --> 00:54:01.230 Richard Lynn: Here, where tower is fit for immortals rise and to space, these are the great Buddhist temples buildings gale force winds blow strong enough to knock houses flat, but the sound of waves on all four sides deafening the years it's like living all year long giant whitecaps. 355 00:54:02.610 --> 00:54:09.030 Richard Lynn: Well, and then he goes on in its pros much rain and especially a lot of strong when the place, I live in is constructed. 356 00:54:10.440 --> 00:54:20.790 Richard Lynn: With glass and four sides so when the wind starts rattles and shakes it's like being on the open seat, that the heart the heart one's heart pumps with alarm well. 357 00:54:22.470 --> 00:54:23.280 Richard Lynn: We went there. 358 00:54:24.540 --> 00:54:31.260 Richard Lynn: The temple is still there, oh the land outside of this long been turned into something else, most of them are. 359 00:54:33.210 --> 00:54:50.370 Richard Lynn: official business government buildings and but it's a long, long way from the sea from Tokyo Bay because of the landfill over the overall the 20th century and it's quite far from the ocean now, but then it wasn't. 360 00:54:51.630 --> 00:54:52.530 Richard Lynn: The reason why the. 361 00:54:53.640 --> 00:54:58.140 Richard Lynn: Language setting and define place for the embassy to move to and he found this. 362 00:55:00.690 --> 00:55:05.910 Richard Lynn: i'm not sure of the mechanisms and evolve, but this isn't the first time it was used for a foreign. 363 00:55:07.080 --> 00:55:13.200 Richard Lynn: Embassies or litigation, the British had used during the pocket for the Coca Cola. 364 00:55:14.220 --> 00:55:15.270 Richard Lynn: regime era. 365 00:55:16.590 --> 00:55:28.230 Richard Lynn: Of the earlier 19th century for for several years, as their mission, and so it was already there is already a tradition of using it as a rental for foreigners. 366 00:55:29.730 --> 00:55:34.950 Richard Lynn: And this is an era, a an 18th century map of it. 367 00:55:37.230 --> 00:55:49.950 Richard Lynn: They are over here on this edge over here, but this neighborhood was particularly important because it was a neighborhood in which several important members of this literal literal gatos circle. 368 00:55:52.050 --> 00:55:52.440 Richard Lynn: live. 369 00:55:53.490 --> 00:55:54.870 Richard Lynn: In particular, this man. 370 00:55:58.620 --> 00:56:01.740 Richard Lynn: He was a scholar of conduct shot 100 job. 371 00:56:02.760 --> 00:56:04.050 Richard Lynn: prolific author. 372 00:56:05.400 --> 00:56:09.660 Richard Lynn: And he lived very close to the embassy, and he. 373 00:56:11.310 --> 00:56:20.610 Richard Lynn: it's interesting that these Japanese literate to us people after reading Chinese books having a classical Chinese education. 374 00:56:21.150 --> 00:56:38.640 Richard Lynn: from childhood on had never seen a real Chinese litter office and there they were right on your doorstep, and so they all started visiting bringing treasures of Chinese culture with them paintings statuary. 375 00:56:40.770 --> 00:56:54.810 Richard Lynn: and so forth, anyway, this was important friend fun solution, who helped him read Japanese historical sources which he needed as background for poems he wrote about Japanese history. 376 00:56:56.250 --> 00:57:00.930 Richard Lynn: And notice how Chinese his even his his his name. 377 00:57:02.490 --> 00:57:07.290 Richard Lynn: of his of his residence was an illusion to buy jewelry porn. 378 00:57:10.380 --> 00:57:19.140 Richard Lynn: And they put together this collection of poetry, which I will allude to and perhaps translate a little bit of in the introduction to the book. 379 00:57:19.800 --> 00:57:34.800 Richard Lynn: And this is an exchange of offering exchange when that poetry between the Chinese from the litigation, on the one hand, and the Japanese had their Japanese friends on the other. 380 00:57:36.060 --> 00:57:45.960 Richard Lynn: And it's quite poignant I translated as just time for a laugh I think they realized how ephemeral their time was together. 381 00:57:47.940 --> 00:58:00.390 Richard Lynn: And here are the people involved here is the the President or the ambassador himself Hello john this is device Ambassador john subway. 382 00:58:01.680 --> 00:58:10.170 Richard Lynn: shun when using was the third member of litigation and upon submission a counselor and then these others are. 383 00:58:12.270 --> 00:58:15.690 Richard Lynn: Other people working at the at the Chinese Embassy. 384 00:58:17.550 --> 00:58:17.760 Look. 385 00:58:19.320 --> 00:58:19.830 What happened. 386 00:58:28.440 --> 00:58:32.520 Richard Lynn: that's odd I still have more but i've lost it. 387 00:58:36.690 --> 00:58:37.200 Richard Lynn: Ah. 388 00:58:37.590 --> 00:58:38.670 Richard Lynn: i've got the wrong. 389 00:58:39.270 --> 00:58:39.840 version. 390 00:58:43.020 --> 00:58:49.500 Richard Lynn: Well i've gone on for about an hour, perhaps this is a good place to stop anyway and. 391 00:58:50.790 --> 00:58:54.420 Richard Lynn: Some observations back, let me back up some more. 392 00:58:55.890 --> 00:59:04.800 Richard Lynn: About generalities, since there are a few things I remember that I had forgotten to mention when I was at that point. 393 00:59:11.610 --> 00:59:12.690 Richard Lynn: This is a. 394 00:59:17.430 --> 00:59:41.610 Richard Lynn: approach to poetry, which is not just poetry obviously from what happened, the scope is much broader and involves saturating poetry and hate and it historical context it's a life and times sort of approach, which is very old fashioned. 395 00:59:43.710 --> 00:59:52.920 Richard Lynn: And it's one which didn't please my teacher lil ro you at all and i'd like to talk a little bit about him. 396 00:59:54.150 --> 00:59:55.080 Richard Lynn: leroy you. 397 00:59:56.760 --> 00:59:57.960 Richard Lynn: died in 1988. 398 01:00:00.210 --> 01:00:10.590 Richard Lynn: at the age of officially 16 though he actually was 59 there's an interesting story there to Laura you. 399 01:00:11.610 --> 01:00:21.930 Richard Lynn: grew up in occupied bait beeping during the Japanese occupation and the only university open then was. 400 01:00:23.430 --> 01:00:24.870 Richard Lynn: The Catholic University. 401 01:00:26.160 --> 01:00:29.340 Richard Lynn: And he attended that and did an undergraduate degree. 402 01:00:32.790 --> 01:00:36.000 Richard Lynn: And then in 1947. 403 01:00:37.050 --> 01:00:40.680 Richard Lynn: He was admitted to the Program. 404 01:00:41.760 --> 01:00:44.730 Richard Lynn: For a doctorate in comparative literature Ching hua Adagio. 405 01:00:46.740 --> 01:00:51.510 Richard Lynn: and his principal teacher was Williamson. 406 01:00:52.890 --> 01:01:03.930 Richard Lynn: who had come from England and was visiting professor had Ching hua in those years he after 48 he returned England. 407 01:01:06.210 --> 01:01:08.940 Richard Lynn: And James Lee or lil ro you. 408 01:01:10.860 --> 01:01:17.700 Richard Lynn: learned his basic approach to literature and poetry, in particular from empson. 409 01:01:18.780 --> 01:01:26.070 Richard Lynn: And empson, of course, was the most famous student of a richards who literally. 410 01:01:27.090 --> 01:01:30.090 Richard Lynn: One might say he almost invented the new criticism. 411 01:01:31.800 --> 01:01:40.920 Richard Lynn: which invented which approach literature, you know as literature period, you know that that you understand poems. 412 01:01:41.520 --> 01:01:51.660 Richard Lynn: exclusively from the internal evidence of the poems themselves, and it was a way to emancipate literary study from the biographical approach. 413 01:01:52.650 --> 01:02:02.730 Richard Lynn: Of the life and times which so predominated 19th century literary criticism in the West, the romantic you know the poem is the man, the man is the poem and that sort of thing. 414 01:02:03.840 --> 01:02:04.350 Richard Lynn: well. 415 01:02:05.400 --> 01:02:11.430 Richard Lynn: Little row you really took this to heart and for his entire career, he was not a. 416 01:02:13.080 --> 01:02:23.730 Richard Lynn: He was he was a an unrepentant the reformed new critic despite his interest in phenomenology in his later years and. 417 01:02:25.020 --> 01:02:40.230 Richard Lynn: His his most of his works are done this way, well, I had come from a very different background, with a lot of history, including art history and i'm far more interested in the connections between literary expression. 418 01:02:41.520 --> 01:02:50.370 Richard Lynn: translation of poetry and its presentation and the context, from which it comes and the environment, the forces the. 419 01:02:51.390 --> 01:02:56.940 Richard Lynn: You know why it's being written and to what ends and so forth, and. 420 01:02:58.230 --> 01:03:04.500 Richard Lynn: We had a lot of interesting discussions, not all of which were all at friendly every call. 421 01:03:06.360 --> 01:03:08.760 Richard Lynn: every once in a while, as far as. 422 01:03:10.260 --> 01:03:22.710 Richard Lynn: That I alluded briefly to the agent, which he passed away in order to qualify for his British counselor scholarship which took him to Oxford University in 1948. 423 01:03:24.510 --> 01:03:33.990 Richard Lynn: He was one year too young so he actually forged papers, proving that he was a year older than he actually was and so he was stuck with that false. 424 01:03:35.370 --> 01:03:36.120 Richard Lynn: Birth date. 425 01:03:37.170 --> 01:03:52.410 Richard Lynn: Information for his whole life and he died that way, I suppose, now it doesn't make any difference whatsoever and it's hardly a confidential piece of information that means anything to anyone anymore, but he confided that to me once. 426 01:03:54.660 --> 01:03:55.020 Richard Lynn: So. 427 01:03:56.670 --> 01:04:04.260 Richard Lynn: So I do intellectual history and sort of philosophical context. 428 01:04:05.970 --> 01:04:23.670 Richard Lynn: As well as as as translating poetry as poetry, and I thought i'd set the record straight at that point, anyway, so that's the one sort of backup thing I wanted to talk about and perhaps now we can open up discussion in general. 429 01:04:27.540 --> 01:04:27.990 Richard Lynn: Mariana. 430 01:04:29.820 --> 01:04:42.210 Mariana Zorkina: Yes, thank you, Professor for your interesting presentation and I just want to remind everyone that this is a project made by two PhD students, we do not have any funding. 431 01:04:42.630 --> 01:04:59.280 Mariana Zorkina: it's all based on enthusiasm and love for research and love for education, so our lectures also come without any money paid, just to be able to share the knowledge, so thank you again for for the help. 432 01:04:59.850 --> 01:05:11.280 Mariana Zorkina: of Professor Alan and now, if anyone has any questions you are free to raise your hand using reactions or to type in the chat and. 433 01:05:12.360 --> 01:05:18.300 Mariana Zorkina: I will give permissions to unmute yourself and we'll invite you to talk in a second. 434 01:05:30.360 --> 01:05:33.000 Mariana Zorkina: I saw there was someone was. 435 01:05:34.680 --> 01:05:39.870 Mariana Zorkina: showing that they want to talk something, but I can't find the end anymore. 436 01:05:46.500 --> 01:05:48.810 Mariana Zorkina: Okay, no, no one's. 437 01:05:49.950 --> 01:05:54.570 Mariana Zorkina: No one's willing to ask first, so I will go if you allow me. 438 01:05:55.860 --> 01:06:10.230 Mariana Zorkina: In the very beginning of the presentation, you mentioned that in Japanese sources, they would use classical Chinese, but then they would you change the word order. 439 01:06:11.370 --> 01:06:16.080 Mariana Zorkina: To make it closer to how they would speak Japanese so. 440 01:06:17.160 --> 01:06:27.360 Mariana Zorkina: Is it hard for someone who only knows classical Chinese to read such sources, and if it is like, is there any way to start with the topic. 441 01:06:31.560 --> 01:06:32.130 Richard Lynn: well. 442 01:06:35.490 --> 01:06:37.440 Richard Lynn: Several general observations. 443 01:06:38.550 --> 01:06:51.000 Richard Lynn: For people who already know how to read Chinese it's extremely quick and i'd almost say easy to learn to read modern Japanese. 444 01:06:56.490 --> 01:07:10.050 Richard Lynn: As part of my odd career for 10 odd years and Palo Alto California, I had a business called corporate Asian language training and I taught. 445 01:07:11.610 --> 01:07:16.110 Richard Lynn: courses in Japanese to, among other people, the. 446 01:07:17.430 --> 01:07:20.910 Richard Lynn: Hewlett Packard laboratories and a lot of. 447 01:07:22.050 --> 01:07:24.180 Richard Lynn: People from China from Hong Kong Taiwan. 448 01:07:26.460 --> 01:07:33.960 Richard Lynn: Work there as as engineers and research research scientist and so forth. 449 01:07:34.800 --> 01:07:38.250 Richard Lynn: And the Chinese in my classes learn to read. 450 01:07:39.150 --> 01:07:40.830 Richard Lynn: Japanese very quickly. 451 01:07:43.170 --> 01:07:45.150 Richard Lynn: Because the kanji hunter. 452 01:07:46.620 --> 01:07:50.220 Richard Lynn: With a few odd variants are the same. 453 01:07:51.660 --> 01:07:54.420 Richard Lynn: and much of the vocabulary is the same. 454 01:07:56.370 --> 01:08:18.870 Richard Lynn: And I recommend that people try to do this so whoever Chinese background because there's a great it's especially important for non Chinese people like me who struggle with learning how to read these things you know we didn't get taught. 455 01:08:20.790 --> 01:08:30.810 Richard Lynn: You know the 10s of when the sons of Jing and so forth, as children, you know I started Chinese when I was almost three days short of my 21st birthday. 456 01:08:32.040 --> 01:08:34.170 Richard Lynn: i've been working on it ever since. 457 01:08:35.970 --> 01:08:44.190 Richard Lynn: it's very helpful to people like me Marcel perhaps them and native Chinese speakers and people with a with a. 458 01:08:45.390 --> 01:08:48.870 Richard Lynn: At least, a good component of traditional Chinese education. 459 01:08:50.340 --> 01:08:50.880 Richard Lynn: and 460 01:08:53.490 --> 01:08:54.150 Richard Lynn: The. 461 01:08:56.610 --> 01:08:58.110 Richard Lynn: I don't know does that does that help. 462 01:09:00.300 --> 01:09:04.500 Richard Lynn: Or what I had up on the on the let's scroll down. 463 01:09:12.600 --> 01:09:16.050 Richard Lynn: For instance, this is a Japanese. 464 01:09:19.290 --> 01:09:39.540 Richard Lynn: marla less pre modern classical Japanese translation of the line above it and what it does it it oh these these if you're not familiar at all with Japanese these the kind of the German the the silbury the Japanese silbury. 465 01:09:41.490 --> 01:09:48.240 Richard Lynn: elements I remember when I was teaching Japanese to Chinese at the Hewlett Packard labs years ago. 466 01:09:49.260 --> 01:09:55.200 Richard Lynn: Do we really have to learn those funny things that are the squiggly little marks and between the Chinese characters. 467 01:09:56.490 --> 01:10:07.140 Richard Lynn: And I said well that's where the where the grammar is carried, where you know where it's either an affirmative or negative so either a statement or question it's it's are the. 468 01:10:07.800 --> 01:10:27.180 Richard Lynn: You know, present or past tense it's you know it's if it either says, if you do this it'll blow up if you don't do this it won't blow up, you should know the difference, and so they started taking this seriously, so you know you have this, in effect, I am a grammatical. 469 01:10:29.160 --> 01:10:33.840 Richard Lynn: parsing of the Chinese text, which is of course very helpful. 470 01:10:37.140 --> 01:10:37.320 Richard Lynn: yeah. 471 01:10:39.000 --> 01:10:40.410 Mariana Zorkina: Okay, thank you. 472 01:10:41.790 --> 01:10:45.510 Mariana Zorkina: We have a question in the chat and I will read it loud. 473 01:10:46.980 --> 01:10:54.090 Mariana Zorkina: I noticed that one in here is the universal form of have to metric coltrane's teacher in his poetry collection. 474 01:10:54.420 --> 01:11:00.630 Mariana Zorkina: yeah I wonder if it was a deliberate option by one depending on the specific themes or poetic style. 475 01:11:01.200 --> 01:11:02.820 Richard Lynn: Yes, yes it is. 476 01:11:05.190 --> 01:11:07.080 Richard Lynn: I guess we'd call this kind of poetry. 477 01:11:07.080 --> 01:11:08.040 Mariana Zorkina: Report tosh. 478 01:11:08.670 --> 01:11:09.330 reporting. 479 01:11:10.410 --> 01:11:30.840 Richard Lynn: it's it's to get across factual material, and it has very much a narrative thrust and seven syllable lines are far better for narrative than five and i'm sure he chose this form largely for that reason. 480 01:11:34.140 --> 01:11:34.410 Richard Lynn: Okay. 481 01:11:38.370 --> 01:11:41.130 Mariana Zorkina: i'm Okay, we have another question. 482 01:11:42.180 --> 01:11:48.750 Mariana Zorkina: So from person storm OK, I will be reading it. 483 01:11:51.510 --> 01:12:06.870 Mariana Zorkina: So thanks for the inspiring talk, I was wondering whether on juicy and has written poems on other countries cultures as well on the US, for instance, since he stayed in San Francisco for some time, as far as I know, thank you. 484 01:12:08.580 --> 01:12:11.100 Richard Lynn: I don't know of any poems that he wrote in San. 485 01:12:11.100 --> 01:12:24.900 Richard Lynn: Francisco when he became counselor at in London, he joined the imperial Chinese legation in London and in 1890. 486 01:12:26.370 --> 01:12:26.910 Richard Lynn: He. 487 01:12:28.080 --> 01:12:37.320 Richard Lynn: traveled in Western Europe extensively briefly but extensively and he has a very famous poem on the Eiffel Tower. 488 01:12:38.490 --> 01:12:48.300 Richard Lynn: And railroads as he didn't railroads he wrote about railroads in Japan, too, and when he was in San Francisco he. 489 01:12:50.910 --> 01:13:05.400 Richard Lynn: was very, very busy apparently he his main job in San Francisco was the repatriation of Chinese laborers who built the railroads and who got stuck there after their. 490 01:13:05.880 --> 01:13:23.370 Richard Lynn: Term of indenture they had no way of getting home and because of the Asiatic exclusion the hacks and civility many wanted to go back to China, though he was greatly involved in that. 491 01:13:24.540 --> 01:13:27.780 Richard Lynn: We do know about some of his attitudes towards. 492 01:13:29.790 --> 01:13:35.400 Richard Lynn: Life in the United States, not much, but one telling feature it's rather interesting. 493 01:13:37.200 --> 01:13:50.640 Richard Lynn: He didn't think very much of the American Government, the the grant this is Ulysses grant the the civil war hero, he was President at the time and that apparently was an incredibly corrupt. 494 01:13:55.530 --> 01:14:00.900 Richard Lynn: presidency and with a lot of scandals going on, and he thought very little of it. 495 01:14:01.920 --> 01:14:13.380 Richard Lynn: And that's, all I can tell you about the San Francisco experience he had a very interesting diplomatic career after San Francisco and before London, he was Consul General in Singapore. 496 01:14:14.850 --> 01:14:20.250 Richard Lynn: And there's a lot of information about him in Singapore and where he is also studied. 497 01:14:23.430 --> 01:14:23.640 Richard Lynn: there. 498 01:14:27.450 --> 01:14:28.620 Mariana Zorkina: Okay, thank you. 499 01:14:30.510 --> 01:14:40.890 Mariana Zorkina: next question and I was actually about to ask something very similar so wonderful lecture Thank you, you seem to be striving for accuracy. 500 01:14:41.400 --> 01:14:51.840 Mariana Zorkina: But isn't poetry all about ambiguity good both versions of the poem you cited about swallows be correct, if so, how could they possibly be conveyed in English. 501 01:14:53.520 --> 01:14:53.880 Richard Lynn: well. 502 01:14:55.170 --> 01:14:58.860 Richard Lynn: that's that's a really unanswerable question. 503 01:15:03.960 --> 01:15:07.170 Richard Lynn: One has to go for the most likely. 504 01:15:08.820 --> 01:15:09.840 Richard Lynn: interpretation. 505 01:15:11.910 --> 01:15:21.750 Richard Lynn: And to arrive at what most unlike most likely means of course involves experience, as well as a specific. 506 01:15:24.000 --> 01:15:31.110 Richard Lynn: Knowledge and i've always striven for trying to find syntactic equivalence. 507 01:15:32.220 --> 01:15:37.470 Richard Lynn: You can't write English poetry of English translations using Chinese word order. 508 01:15:38.640 --> 01:15:48.180 Richard Lynn: Even though the two languages share a common feature of subject for object that's the basic type of of word order. 509 01:15:50.730 --> 01:15:58.230 Richard Lynn: Nevertheless, of their other features of grammar that separate the two languages completely. 510 01:15:59.850 --> 01:16:23.040 Richard Lynn: But there are ways of constructing translations that involve searching for and and one hopes, finds syntactic equivalence and you have to work at the most likely and otherwise, what do you do you put down two versions of every home you translate that seems seems kind of silly. 511 01:16:25.740 --> 01:16:30.930 Richard Lynn: Which ones, and that and then must be subjective judgment in the final analysis, about the translator. 512 01:16:32.880 --> 01:16:41.520 Richard Lynn: Does that help that's really it's an opinion it's hardly a definitive and authoritative answer but it's an opinion that i've. 513 01:16:42.570 --> 01:16:43.380 Richard Lynn: firmly believe in. 514 01:16:47.820 --> 01:16:52.170 Mariana Zorkina: Yes, thank you it's very interesting because. 515 01:16:53.190 --> 01:17:01.890 Mariana Zorkina: Maybe not many small just in the West are aware of this, but there was this huge debate about the same topic in Russian technology. 516 01:17:02.490 --> 01:17:15.960 Mariana Zorkina: And there were those who were advocating for complete accuracy and grammatical accuracy and there were those who tried to keep the rhythm of poetry. 517 01:17:16.440 --> 01:17:26.070 Mariana Zorkina: Rather than grammatical structures and then there was the third school that was all about translating the meaning and the feeling and. 518 01:17:26.880 --> 01:17:45.330 Mariana Zorkina: As far as I know it is still very big So there are a lot of people who choose to translate meaning possibly not paying attention to grammar or some intricacies but to the bigger picture and I was wondering if. 519 01:17:46.920 --> 01:17:54.480 Mariana Zorkina: The goal of the translation might be important for the way one translates attacks, so the. 520 01:17:55.680 --> 01:18:07.890 Mariana Zorkina: The ultimate goal of what one tries to achieve so, for example, one translation is more appropriate in an academic setting and another is more appropriate for general public, for example. 521 01:18:09.210 --> 01:18:10.740 Richard Lynn: Yes, that that's a good point. 522 01:18:13.800 --> 01:18:20.880 Richard Lynn: The history of translation of Chinese poetry into Western languages is. 523 01:18:22.770 --> 01:18:23.580 Richard Lynn: quite interesting. 524 01:18:25.680 --> 01:18:37.170 Richard Lynn: When it was first done in English, which was which i'm more familiar, there was an attempt to turn it into what domestication it's turned it into a kind of. 525 01:18:39.060 --> 01:18:43.680 Richard Lynn: pseudo English form of poetry, and so you'll get. 526 01:18:46.260 --> 01:18:51.210 Richard Lynn: translators in the 19th century, the few who did tries to do something that. 527 01:18:53.370 --> 01:18:56.850 Richard Lynn: You know, essentially turning Chinese poems and do English books. 528 01:18:57.900 --> 01:19:03.540 Richard Lynn: With using rhyme and all the rules of of signups, for instance, that sort of thing. 529 01:19:04.650 --> 01:19:18.150 Richard Lynn: And then along came and the first was 1917 Arthur bailey's translations began, where he hit on a scheme that he followed his his whole life. 530 01:19:19.140 --> 01:19:39.420 Richard Lynn: That is he didn't try to rhyme nor did he try to use Chinese word order, but his lines of English translation had as many stresses, as there are syllables in the original Chinese and that worked for him, there is a downside to that, however. 531 01:19:40.680 --> 01:19:52.320 Richard Lynn: everything he translated from the shooting the classic of poetry to Yun MAIs poetry in the 18th century all sounds like it was transferred to the written by the same poet. 532 01:19:52.860 --> 01:20:01.740 Richard Lynn: Because it all sounds the same there is no individuality distinguishable from one poem to the next, or from one foot to the next. 533 01:20:04.230 --> 01:20:07.290 Richard Lynn: So I I, I have no real. 534 01:20:10.530 --> 01:20:11.190 Richard Lynn: How can I put it. 535 01:20:13.560 --> 01:20:32.070 Richard Lynn: I don't have a rigorous of philosophy or methodology of translating except to try to keep, I suppose, meaning is more important to me i'm trying to recapture what meaning the poet to me seems to have originally tried to convey. 536 01:20:34.590 --> 01:20:55.920 Richard Lynn: And that makes well it produces one kind of poetry, as far as the what kind of audience you're writing for I just concluded a long essay on the reception of Lao Tzu in the West, starting with the Jesuit missionaries in the 18th century through the contemporary. 537 01:20:57.330 --> 01:21:00.840 Richard Lynn: For volume published by Springer and edited by. 538 01:21:02.610 --> 01:21:03.450 Richard Lynn: Leo shotgun. 539 01:21:06.990 --> 01:21:08.400 Richard Lynn: It was now professor at. 540 01:21:09.780 --> 01:21:13.200 Richard Lynn: Beijing sure fundacion so he is usually had. 541 01:21:15.540 --> 01:21:16.710 Richard Lynn: Shandong doing. 542 01:21:17.790 --> 01:21:29.010 Richard Lynn: Anyway, Professor Leo you know thanks it's it's a good essay and it will be published to probably in the coming year and, of course, the translations of clouds are. 543 01:21:30.150 --> 01:21:31.350 Richard Lynn: involves the same problem. 544 01:21:33.090 --> 01:21:38.190 Richard Lynn: For home is it written for home, does it appeal to and there's an enormous difference between. 545 01:21:39.720 --> 01:21:46.770 Richard Lynn: Competent scholarly translations and those designed for the mass market. 546 01:21:50.340 --> 01:21:52.230 Richard Lynn: And it's the same the same set of issues. 547 01:21:54.570 --> 01:22:10.800 Richard Lynn: Of course, you get in there more than 1500 translations of lousy into non Chinese languages other languages 1500 a second only to the now the Bible the Old and New Testament and there's. 548 01:22:12.600 --> 01:22:17.100 Richard Lynn: 500 and some so called translations into English alone. 549 01:22:19.140 --> 01:22:27.030 Richard Lynn: Most of which are translated are supposedly translations, but there by people who can't even read Chinese they are just. 550 01:22:28.080 --> 01:22:32.040 Richard Lynn: reworking something to appeal to. 551 01:22:33.600 --> 01:22:33.960 Richard Lynn: kind of. 552 01:22:35.130 --> 01:22:41.550 Richard Lynn: The mass market and many of them are bestsellers which for scholars it's kind of irritating. 553 01:22:46.050 --> 01:22:46.290 Richard Lynn: there. 554 01:22:48.090 --> 01:22:50.190 Mariana Zorkina: Okay, thank you. 555 01:22:51.270 --> 01:22:56.460 Mariana Zorkina: um I believe we have no more questions and we have also. 556 01:22:57.660 --> 01:23:03.420 Mariana Zorkina: run out of time, so I propose we end here. 557 01:23:04.440 --> 01:23:06.240 Mariana Zorkina: And I just want. 558 01:23:07.260 --> 01:23:08.310 Richard Lynn: I just say one more thing. 559 01:23:09.720 --> 01:23:12.750 Richard Lynn: This presentation next week will continue. 560 01:23:13.230 --> 01:23:15.000 Richard Lynn: And it'll be more specifically. 561 01:23:16.020 --> 01:23:19.020 Richard Lynn: address to the actual poetry. 562 01:23:20.040 --> 01:23:25.950 Richard Lynn: So I have lots of forms to present and show you strategies of translation so far. 563 01:23:30.030 --> 01:23:49.710 Mariana Zorkina: Yes, this is great so here again reminding everyone, we are meeting next week same time the zoom link is going to be the same, so you can reuse it but i'm planning to send a reminder to everyone right before the lecture so that you don't have to look for the link. 564 01:23:51.360 --> 01:23:51.960 Mariana Zorkina: and 565 01:23:53.190 --> 01:23:59.340 Mariana Zorkina: This is it, I guess, thank you, everybody and see you next week.