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Samira Müller: We can start.

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Samira Müller: Okay, welcome to the lecture series methods in psychology today begins the second half of the block about working with manuscripts were professor in my column Bush is going to present the material.

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Samira Müller: The material found in the dorm Hong cave and how to deal with it and i'm going to first introduce myself shortly, my name is Samir Mila and I am a PhD candidate at the University of Zurich under the supervision of.

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Samira Müller: Professor of Columbia my broader field of interest and includes foreign influences and especially Indian influences on Chinese culture from antiquity up until the C suite unification, more or less.

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Samira Müller: But in particular i'm looking at said influences in the hand dynastic manuscripts found in Northwest China, which is exactly why I wanted to share this sessions.

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Samira Müller: Now I bet you have all heard of Professor in my column Bush before and these an outstanding scholar, who does not only excel in reading in between the lines of manuscripts but also in expecting kind of every nook and cranny around the manuscripts and, besides the actual text.

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Samira Müller: going to first introduce him shortly after having studied in Budapest and Tenzin for several years.

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Samira Müller: He went to study at the University of California Berkeley where he was awarded a PhD in 2002 for his dissertation on the autobiography of Chinese writing during the warring states period, then from 2002 two 2012.

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Samira Müller: He worked at the British Library in London, as a member of the team working on the international doing one project, the IDP what fizzles an amazing website, he is definitely.

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Samira Müller: going to present to us later since 2012 he has been a lecture in the Faculty of Asian and Middle Eastern studies studies at the University of Cambridge and.

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Samira Müller: he's also President of the European Association for the study of Chinese manuscripts and sub editor for medieval China in the ambitious project encyclical idea of manuscript cultures in Asia and Africa.

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Samira Müller: it's published an astonishing amount of books in article about Chinese manuscript culture and manuscript in doing one in particular have which I just wanted to mention a few.

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Samira Müller: For example, he's article into book characters in Buddhist manuscripts from doing one.

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Samira Müller: or for me especially important, of course, known Chinese non Chinese influences in video Chinese manuscript culture and there's a book which just appeared last year, I want to.

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Samira Müller: mention the especially which is don't call manuscript culture and of the first Millennium it is available open access on the decorator webpage and I think it's already linked on our web page and the page of the lecture series, so you can go and download it for yourself.

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Samira Müller: yeah then, thank you very much and I going to hand over to Emma Thank you.

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Imre Galambos: Well, thank you so.

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very much for the.

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Imre Galambos: warm and Nice introduction and thank you for the organizers.

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Imre Galambos: madalena and Mariana.

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Imre Galambos: I think it's a really worthwhile.

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Imre Galambos: series to talk about methodology or talk about how scholars work on.

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Imre Galambos: How they do research and i'm very excited to talk about my own research here, so I should probably share my screen.

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Imre Galambos: So i'm my own research as some yourself focused.

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Imre Galambos: Basically, on doing long manuscripts in the last.

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Imre Galambos: Almost 20 years more like 18 years because when I was doing my postgraduate studies, then I worked on early China and worked on the.

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Imre Galambos: structure of Chinese characters and after graduation I got a job at the British Library which was my kind of my first real job, and there we were working with it too long manuscripts.

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Imre Galambos: Doing conservation digitization and.

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Imre Galambos: Research and so after a couple of years I changed my own research direction and started working with the medieval period, just because I was there and I had access to the manuscripts and I think access to the manuscripts was really invaluable in of opening my eyes to.

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Imre Galambos: How they looked.

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Imre Galambos: and also to the collection so it's sort of the structure of the collection, what sorts of the composition of the collection, what sorts of things were in it.

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Imre Galambos: And so, one of the things and i'll be talking about that in a second was that I saw that it wasn't just Chinese manuscripts.

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Imre Galambos: And, of course, as a psychologist coming from a psycho psychological background I was mainly interested in the Chinese manuscripts.

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Imre Galambos: But then I could see that there were many other manuscripts and there were.

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Imre Galambos: Many scholars around the world coming to the library looking at these other manuscripts which were just as important, and they came from the same cave.

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Imre Galambos: which was astonishing so it's not just Chinese, but many other, most notably Tibetan manuscripts but also those in all weaker or soggy n co 20s and other languages, they were interested in this sealed in this cave and the beginning of the 11th century.

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Imre Galambos: Together with the Chinese material.

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Imre Galambos: And this was, in contrast, actually to how.

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Imre Galambos: psychology was depicting this collection, because they would always people would always focus, or so it seemed to me, at least at the time.

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Imre Galambos: People would always focus on these.

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Imre Galambos: Chinese scrolls from then on, so in Chinese, you would have the word content or pungency or something like that.

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Imre Galambos: And this was this was actually not the case, if you look at the collection in general and so.

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Imre Galambos: let's look at some some of these old pictures so, for example, this, this is a famous photograph by world Stein which was done.

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Imre Galambos: Well, he did some photographs in 1907 when he was in the caves for the first time and, interestingly, this is this is well known.

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Imre Galambos: This is a fake photograph because the manuscripts are actually another photograph but they're the original photograph is empty.

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Imre Galambos: And it's retouched so the manuscript the kind of painted on top of the mountain is on top of the photograph and because he had made a photograph like this, but it was super imposed, so it didn't come out right so, but he really, really wanted to show this.

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Imre Galambos: This image in his book when he was publishing about it and so he kind of really touched the photograph and showed what it was like.

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Imre Galambos: An oddly.

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Imre Galambos: This photograph became really, really famous and we could see it went viral and then people starting over starting always using it as an example of sort of what the library, really, really look like sort of the authentic picture.

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Imre Galambos: One of the first authentic pictures of the manuscript from TIM brown but it's it's not authentic it's it's it's in a way to forge photograph, but what we see here.

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Imre Galambos: Is that we see these bundles.

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Imre Galambos: piled up and these bundles have scrolls inside of them, and so this is really how Chinese manuscripts which were scrolls were stored at the time, but he wasn't only Chinese manuscripts he was also Tibetan ones.

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Imre Galambos: which were large numbers and they probably were inside these these bundles.

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Imre Galambos: But we what we don't see on this photograph is how the cave library look like, or what was what was inside a cave library, so what we have is these two photographs from a few months later by Paul Paleo again extremely.

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Imre Galambos: Famous.

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Imre Galambos: photographs and they're used much whenever people talk about doing wrong.

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Imre Galambos: But what we see here that is behind Paleo there's an enormous collection of manuscripts and look at say this was the original state.

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Imre Galambos: Of the manuscripts in the light in the cave in the library cave but actually it wasn't because.

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Imre Galambos: I think when sign was there much of this material was taken out and examined outside of this little Chamber in the larger key that we saw on the previous slide and so after that things were put back.

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Imre Galambos: In the cave, so this is kind of that the second stage, and of course sign removed.

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Imre Galambos: A big portion of the manuscripts from before that, so what you can see, on the on the painting or the or the photograph on the right that actually the manuscripts go up pretty high here and on the back wall where there's a painting.

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Imre Galambos: They don't so maybe that part was removed facetime.

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Imre Galambos: If we look at the details of this, we can see a little bit what manuscripts look like, so what you can see, you see these bundles.

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Imre Galambos: backed up against the back Wall and the bundles have scrolls in them as on stein's.

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Imre Galambos: photograph but you also see that you have other kinds of things, so these also look like maybe two scrolls here but what's underneath is actually not scroll So these are.

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Imre Galambos: Probably flat books so more like booklets and concert tina's and other kinds of material not scrolls or just sheets of paper.

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Imre Galambos: And if we look at the.

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Imre Galambos: The other image and we can also see that, like, for example, here in the top is clearly a booklet which is placed here, and if i'm right, you can see, this thing this This does not seem to be part of the original cave that probably it's it's Paleo.

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Imre Galambos: kind of a foldable chair, or something like a campaign chair, and so what we see on top of it are probably manuscripts that were selected by Paleo already because he had to he could only take a certain amount of manuscripts which was still several thousand but.

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Imre Galambos: Nevertheless, it wasn't like he couldn't take everything.

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Imre Galambos: So what this tells us actually is that.

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Imre Galambos: They were not only scrolls they were all sorts of other materials so behind polio, you can also see this this enormous stack of probably Tibetan.

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Imre Galambos: pulte leaf man his friends Stat here and there is a symbol spiky has a wonderful article about these because.

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Imre Galambos: Many of these Tibetan manuscripts were left behind internal even when everything else was cleared, because people were not so interested in them so they didn't consider them manuscripts when they when the.

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Imre Galambos: Chinese authorities, they they shipped the remaining part of the manuscripts to Beijing.

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Imre Galambos: After the forum explorers have taken the majority of them so they were still.

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Imre Galambos: About 16,000 manuscripts remaining there and they ship them to Beijing they somehow left behind many of Tibetan ones, which is really, really interesting because it tells us about the attitudes towards these manuscripts at the time.

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Imre Galambos: So, today I want to talk about methodology or i've been told to talk about methodology and really my methodology, after having thought about it.

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Imre Galambos: is really context, so my idea is that.

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Imre Galambos: We have to look at the context always so we'll manuscripts are they carry text, this is, this is by default so there's a textual content that.

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Imre Galambos: But in addition to that there's a lot of context and a lot of this content context is often ignored or only partly taken into consideration, and I think this today, I will talk about this kind of demonstrate why context is important to me and what can we do.

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Imre Galambos: kind of what can you help us accomplish, why is it beneficial to look at the context, so the first question that comes up here is the difference between a manuscript and text.

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Imre Galambos: So.

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Imre Galambos: What is the difference between manuscript and text if these two words and actually even the word document or sometimes used interchangeably so people talk about the doing long document documents that do not text the manuscripts kind of meaning the same thing.

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Imre Galambos: The same.

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Imre Galambos: The same kind of.

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Imre Galambos: lack of clarity, maybe is also married in Chinese where you would talk about.

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Imre Galambos: I don't know do homework true or usual or two hallway Shin so when you say when she when you really need text.

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Imre Galambos: or presumably the word once again rather refers to text than manuscripts, but I think once we work on the.

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Imre Galambos: say the physical attributes of manuscripts We really have to make a distinction between manuscripts and texts, so the manuscript is the physical object and the text is the content, so a text can exist actually without a.

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Imre Galambos: Physical form, it can be entirely oral.

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Imre Galambos: Or you can even think about it so keep something in your mind and that it does not have a physical form but nevertheless it exists as a text.

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Imre Galambos: But once you write down a text then inevitably has a physical form manifestation and that physical manifestation of it when it's written by hand a is the manuscript.

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Imre Galambos: So let me see.

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Imre Galambos: One of the interesting things about this word context is that.

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Imre Galambos: He kind of enlarges our scope of view so basically.

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Imre Galambos: My point is by looking at the context is that we should not be looking at the text alone, of course, it's interesting or it's important to look at the text after all.

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Imre Galambos: We are scholars working textual studies and manuscripts studies is kind of part of textual studies, but nevertheless it's important to look at.

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Imre Galambos: demanded the physical object, as well as the manuscript so, and for that you need to look at the originals so obviously we usually do not have access to the original so the second best thing to look at is good quality photographs.

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Imre Galambos: and

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Imre Galambos: If you don't have good quality photographs, then you can look at worse quality photographs, or just bad quality photographs.

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Imre Galambos: But in any case it's still better than not looking at any kind of photographs right so for the for understanding what a.

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Imre Galambos: text looks like, in reality, or where the what it looked like, in reality, you need to look at the image.

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Imre Galambos: And that's, I think, very important.

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Imre Galambos: and part of the reason for that is that these objects are not just textual, so there are many other uses two books that are not textual for example here, you see an example from.

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Imre Galambos: mischka hellman management's book and it's called the archaeology of Tibetan books and here you can see a group of Tibetans using these fraudulent parameter manuscripts.

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Imre Galambos: For a ritual or as part of the ritual ensuring good harvest and what you can see, this the manuscripts are here they're bundled up in the bands.

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Imre Galambos: And it seems that nobody's taking the manuscripts out of the bag right, so they they manuscripts a hidden and nevertheless they fulfill our function, so this kind of function of manuscripts actually is very important because, for the people who use them.

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Imre Galambos: This is what they use them for, so this is this is vital, this is why they have them or, this is one of the occasions where they use them.

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Imre Galambos: But if we only look at the text we look at what the text actually says what it what it is about, then we miss the actual us so we don't just miss another dimension.

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Imre Galambos: Of this text, what we actually miss the point we missed the point, why are and how these texts are used, and of course there are many instances where the text itself is red and the meeting is very important, of course, it's important and.

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Imre Galambos: Part of the reason why these texts are so sacred is because of their content, but nevertheless when people actually use them, they might use them as as ritual objects.

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Imre Galambos: As something different than something that goes beyond the textual textual content.

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Imre Galambos: So, here comes in the.

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Imre Galambos: This concept of.

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Imre Galambos: The.

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Imre Galambos: cult of the book which, which was popularized in the past.

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Imre Galambos: 1520 years and the scholars have written about this extensively and I think it's really important, if you look at manuscript so what we're trying to do actually is.

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Imre Galambos: Not so much to decipher the text or in many cases, at least, or to do kind of make sense of particular me hard grammatical structures but actually I think it's very important to look at what the text does in a community or in society.

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Imre Galambos: So, for example here are three examples of the heart sutra a famous tax that the porter Prometheus changing, and you can see that.

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Imre Galambos: One is a large kind of hanging scroll which has the suit train this very interesting zigzag manner in the shape of a stupa.

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Imre Galambos: So you have to, if you want to.

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Imre Galambos: read the text and i'm not sure if you really read this text or kind of visualize it, but what you do with it, but basically This is something again that goes beyond just normal reading.

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Imre Galambos: Then we have this other.

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Imre Galambos: object which is relatively small compared to the the one on the left, and this is, this is a wooden board with a handle.

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Imre Galambos: With a little string obviously for hanging that the text is written upside down so basically maybe it's hunk while not using, but I think when it's used when it's not being used, but when it is used, then it should be this way up, so the handle should point downwards.

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Imre Galambos: And you can see, the text here, and the text goes from left to right so basically in the opposite direction of how Chinese is normally read it's actually not the.

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Imre Galambos: gens on translation it's another version but it's nevertheless it's the heart sutra and then, finally, we have this half a page from a little booklet the Codex type manuscript.

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Imre Galambos: Where we see the end of this of the same scripture.

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Imre Galambos: So, and this is also a small, small size manuscript probably comparable to add to this wooden board or maybe even smaller.

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Imre Galambos: i'll talk about this manuscript.

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Imre Galambos: A little later in more detail, so we can see that, in each case, the text.

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Imre Galambos: Is not the main point here, or we should admit that we have different uses of different functions here and we might not actually understand the function.

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Imre Galambos: very clearly, but it's where we intuitively know when we look at these different objects that they must have had a different function, so the function would not have been to kind of to transmit the content, it would wouldn't have been the transmission of information right.

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Imre Galambos: So.

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Imre Galambos: Because.

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Imre Galambos: Does it actually tell you anything new like if you see even if it's written say on the right hand side, which is kind of the most the most normal or usual way of writing it.

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Imre Galambos: Does the text tell you anything new, especially once you know it, and in attack in in the case of a text like this the heart sutra, we have to assume that everybody needs this text by heart.

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Imre Galambos: it's a short.

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Imre Galambos: very short text which is commonly reciting and so everybody knew it maybe not very well, maybe not by heart but everybody was familiar with it, so does it tell them anything new Probably not.

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Imre Galambos: But it was never really important.

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Imre Galambos: To have it.

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Imre Galambos: present to recite it display it included in in a ritual, etc.

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Imre Galambos: So when when it comes to manuscripts we have these questions, who, when why, and I think these questions pertaining to the manuscript rather than to the text so in the case of the the heart sutra.

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Imre Galambos: Maybe when we see hundred examples over 100 examples for too long, then we're less interested in, say, the translator Shinzo.

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Imre Galambos: In the town in St but we're more interested in what was happening to these particular copies so we're interested in the objects in in the function of these manuscripts rather than.

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Imre Galambos: kind of the origins of this text, which are more or less well known, so we don't actually learn a lot from them, but we learn a lot about the Community about religious practices, if we examine the manuscript itself.

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Imre Galambos: And so, as Samira said, I wanted to maybe show a little bit the.

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Imre Galambos: The background where, as somebody who does research on on on on.

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Imre Galambos: Where I get my data from, so this is many cases the IDP website, because if you work on this material, you need to be able to get to have access to.

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Imre Galambos: To the manuscripts and because there are a lot of manuscripts in different collections, so you want to be able, you want to you want to be able to do this as quickly and as efficiently as possible, so.

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Imre Galambos: You have to learn the system and there's no way around it, I don't know if I can use my my own browser.

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Imre Galambos: I don't know, can you see this that I opened.

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Samira Müller: But now you're still on your.

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Imre Galambos: PowerPoint Okay, maybe I should discontinue that.

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Samira Müller: Yes, and then.

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Samira Müller: share, and then it should work.

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Imre Galambos: Yes, and then I share.

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Imre Galambos: My browser yes.

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Imre Galambos: Can you see my browser.

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Samira Müller: Yes, we can.

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Imre Galambos: Okay, so you're typing IDP do UK and then you look at some manuscript say.

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Imre Galambos: Okay.

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Imre Galambos: If you're interested in assignments, but this time manuscript shelf marks or press marks they begin with s which.

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Imre Galambos: People usually assume stands for sign, but it doesn't it probably stands for scrolls because originally most of them were scrolls.

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Imre Galambos: Then you have a dot and then it's important that you don't have a space.

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Imre Galambos: And then you have something else, so in this case I don't know something i've looked at before so s dot four to seven one.

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Imre Galambos: And you hit that and then you find this manuscript Unfortunately, this one is not digitized.

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Imre Galambos: Nevertheless, it's actually.

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Imre Galambos: it's not completely useless because it does have the size which can be important for you as well, but.

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Imre Galambos: For the Paleo manuscripts so the ones that are in.

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Imre Galambos: In Paris, you have to enter the the press mark that the French press mark and the press mark is is not P dot something.

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Imre Galambos: I don't know like 3720 because that doesn't give you anything but you have to enter Paleo shinola.

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Imre Galambos: The 3720.

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Imre Galambos: And that's how you get the manuscript.

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Imre Galambos: The interesting thing in this is that.

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Imre Galambos: This is the full press mark right, this is, you have to memorize this, you have to remember this in.

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Imre Galambos: In scholarship we always use an abbreviated one which is P dot three 720, but when you search for it, you will not find it so you need to use Paleo Shin or 3720.

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Imre Galambos: So you need the spaces in between, but you can also look for a sub string here, so you don't need to type in the whole thing, but you see the shinola the last character is an s.

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Imre Galambos: So you can put in s and then 3720, and this is not going to be this time management is going to be the Paleo manuscript because the sign would not have the space, and it would have a.so, this is actually this is here.

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Imre Galambos: Is the last character of the shinola that you avoid typing the whole thing, so if you search for it like this, you find the same manuscript if you click on it.

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Imre Galambos: Then you should get the manuscript up.

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Imre Galambos: Which is not happening now, and what you can see, is also that the.

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Imre Galambos: The thumbnail is not here.

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Imre Galambos: And the reason for this is, and this is a recent problem is that on the the thumbnails for these manuscripts are stored on each site.

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Imre Galambos: On each like.

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Imre Galambos: There are seven IDP sites around the world.

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Imre Galambos: So there's a Paris website and there's a London website, so the thumbnails for all manuscripts are stored on all sides.

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Imre Galambos: So here the thumbnail should be coming from the British side because we are on the British site, but.

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Imre Galambos: something went wrong with the French images on the British side, so you cannot actually look at that what happens is that if you normally if you click on it.

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Imre Galambos: You go to the page you still cannot look at the thumbnails, but you can look at the the actual photographs, which are not on the British side, but on the French side and that works fine one way to go around this is to type IDP dot Vienna.

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Imre Galambos: Fr and so to go to the French site directly.

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Imre Galambos: And supposedly it's the same.

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Imre Galambos: You typing things, but here, you get the thumbnail and if you click on it, you get both the thumbnails and you get the larger photographs as well, so this is like a little hack to bypass some of the problems because.

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Imre Galambos: they're often problems, I mean you cannot avoid this any if you want to look at the actual the manuscript you see you don't have a lot of space here, so you have to scroll back and forth.

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Imre Galambos: let's see let's look at this point here.

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Imre Galambos: Yes, so, then you can just open it in a new tab, which is what I usually do and you get to see.

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Imre Galambos: The whole picture and it's it's reasonably.

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Imre Galambos: reasonably large.

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Imre Galambos: What you cannot have for unfortunately it's you cannot enlarge the image so here, you have the the link for large image and that doesn't work so.

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Imre Galambos: This is the best size image that you're going to get off the French collection, the British collection, you can get large images.

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Imre Galambos: So for the French one actually Luckily, we have the website of the National Library of friends videotape Nice, you know, and then they have a website, which is called Gallica.

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Imre Galambos: And, here again, you can find the same manuscript, but you have to type in the full press mark so Paleo ocean or 3720.

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Imre Galambos: You type it in and.

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Imre Galambos: You get the search results.

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Imre Galambos: Unfortunately, always get this advertisement I don't know how to get rid of it, but then you get search results and usually The first one is the manuscript you're looking for So if you click on that.

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Imre Galambos: You get this medium size image that you can Double Click.

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Imre Galambos: And then you can even make it full screen and then you can really zoom in.

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Imre Galambos: So this you can do, by default, for the British British images on IDP but you cannot do it for the French images, but you can do it on Gallica.

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Imre Galambos: And so, this is how you.

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Imre Galambos: You look at the manuscripts basically okay i'll go back to my.

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Imre Galambos: PowerPoint.

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Imre Galambos: yeah.

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Imre Galambos: Yes, so the idea is.

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Imre Galambos: That you really need kind of to be able to work efficiently, you really need.

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Imre Galambos: To have access to all this material in good quality images, if you don't have good quality, then, then you use a less.

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Imre Galambos: Like a worst quality were not as good quality but ideally, you should look at good color images.

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Imre Galambos: As you've seen in the on the British side there are some images that are not available they're not digitized yet manuscripts that are like digitize and for those you have to.

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Imre Galambos: Look at publications so most of them are printed, for example in the they're these Chinese publications with lots of lots of volume, so you have the in town.

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Imre Galambos: In time to do normalization and then you have the fans hunker down and so on, so the, unfortunately, the French collection is all digitized but the British, which is much larger.

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Imre Galambos: Is digitized maybe halfway through and for those you have to rely on these large volumes with black and white photographs.

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Imre Galambos: Fortunately, many of these volumes are circulating around graduate students in PDF form, so you actually have relatively quick access to those as well i'm not going to.

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Imre Galambos: Show these methods here, however.

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Imre Galambos: Okay, and so.

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Imre Galambos: That was the context that I was talking about the context of collect collections, so you have to understand the context of.

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Imre Galambos: Current collections of manuscripts and I only was talking about the British and the French ones, which are the biggest but, of course, there are the Russian and Chinese collections and some Japanese, which are a little bit harder to get to.

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Imre Galambos: But it's also possible so you need to be able to kind of have access to all of that material have them at your fingertips, so to speak.

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Imre Galambos: Now.

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Imre Galambos: In terms of context, of course, the historical context is extremely important and i'm showing here this map that I downloaded from the web, and this is.

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Imre Galambos: As you can see, this is the song that I stay from 962 1279 so I guess the two the to sort of the northern song is this whole thing and then you have the southern song which is smaller.

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Imre Galambos: But.

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Imre Galambos: done wrong is not here, so in 1961 was not part of the shisha kingdom, so the tangles we're not here yet for another almost another century, so this map is actually not accurate, but I just wanted to show you there are not many better maps so i'm using this I drew this.

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Imre Galambos: square here to indicate the region of control and so, in this period that we're talking about and.

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Imre Galambos: that most of the collection comes from which is let's say the 10th century.

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Imre Galambos: There was an independent kingdom, basically, so it had this nominal connection with children with the town court.

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Imre Galambos: Initially, until the Tongue court existed and then.

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Imre Galambos: Once it didn't exist them do know morally pledge allegiance to some of the Chinese states and, eventually, it was a it was entirely on its own until it was occupied by the shisha.

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Imre Galambos: And this, this is actually quite important to understand that we don't, this is not something we immediately class that don't home at the time when most of the manuscripts were.

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Imre Galambos: were written was not part of China in any way it was actually completely separate from China.

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Imre Galambos: And Chinese problematic Of course this is denomination but basically from the central chains states, it was completely separate and at one point, it was under Tibetan.

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Imre Galambos: Tibetan domination and then it was part of this very relatively large Tibetan empire and then he was it was kind of independent or semi independent, but it had very close ties with.

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Imre Galambos: With the Tibetans with the waivers and also with core time so that's actually a very interesting thing that these ties Central Asian times were much stronger than the ties with any of the Chinese states that the East.

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Imre Galambos: And that depends that actually determines quite a lot of things that are happening so if you think about these manuscripts you have to see them a little bit in that sense, so when you see that there's so.

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Imre Galambos: there's so many multilingual manuscripts are there so many manuscripts in other than Chinese languages, then it's it's part of the situation in the 10th century that this was not a Chinese region, this was a multi cultural and multi linguistic.

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Imre Galambos: region.

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Imre Galambos: And this brings me to this really interesting.

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Imre Galambos: idea by berto allow for.

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Imre Galambos: there's this letter by Carl bishop, who was the.

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Imre Galambos: was later the curator of the.

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Imre Galambos: freer collection and he says, it was a remark of yours is a letter to letter to allow for it was a remark of yours on vacation when I first met you.

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Imre Galambos: To the fact that no given culture could be profitably studied as an isolated phenomena that only in the light of its contacts with other cultures.

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Imre Galambos: That encouraged me to keep constantly in view this aspect of the matter and then connection there with your little paper in the journal of race development for October 1914 as I think being the source of more profitable suggestion to me than anything of the kind that have ever read.

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Imre Galambos: So this refers to this.

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Imre Galambos: Paper by berto bow for cold some fundamental ideas of Chinese culture and in this paper he takes this very grand bird's eye view on Eurasia and kind of looks at China from that perspective.

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Imre Galambos: And really arguing for very strong connections and pretty much any direction at different times.

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Imre Galambos: And, and he talks that he says that all of these cultures are connected and we could we should always always look at them in this way, and this is kind of this is an argument that expired inspires me when I think of 10 century do know that it's.

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Imre Galambos: As a psychologist and part of my training was to look at this material from the perspective of China, and this is what I also see many of many other researchers doing.

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Imre Galambos: But I also think that it's important to look at it from the other perspective to kind of have to give credit to the other massive manuscripts that that has been found.

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Imre Galambos: In other languages.

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Imre Galambos: So that's that's really, really important right.

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Imre Galambos: And we are very used to seeing like in big things in Buddhist culture.

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Imre Galambos: So the trope of traveling to the West is like really it's like a major part of the Buddhist tradition.

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Imre Galambos: And the West is where sort of the teaching comes from this is where pilgrims go, and this is where like these most important translators like sheeran song and fast, you have gone so there's really this tradition, but there are.

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Imre Galambos: Also, other kinds of contract contacts, at least in general, so into Hong Most importantly, the other contacts are Tibetan and uranium.

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Imre Galambos: The telephone is actually at this place where it unites Chinese the uranium and India or in big world, and I think it's very important to keep that in mind when we look at the original manuscripts so we'll use this.

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Imre Galambos: manuscript s 5531 as an example.

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Imre Galambos: When I when i'm talking about some of the points that i'd like to make i've written about this at length in my new book that Samir mentioned the book general manuscript culture.

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Imre Galambos: And here i'm going to look at some of the same ideas there, but from a methodological point of view and now include some new.

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Imre Galambos: Some new findings that i've.

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Imre Galambos: come across since Center.

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Imre Galambos: it's a book compose the four different choirs so these choirs are basically notebooks notebook like little pamphlets or something that are strung together, so the notebooks themselves are so through the middle by thread and then each one of them.

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Imre Galambos: Is joined to the other one now they.

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Imre Galambos: aren't one or maybe two different.

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Imre Galambos: choirs are missing, so we only had we we kind of entered the text, which is the green eating the 25th chapter of the Lotus sutra.

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Imre Galambos: kind of had halfway through the text.

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Imre Galambos: and, interestingly, you have you have a date at the end, so this date going to contain yeah sure you aren't sure when you hundred so this year, this way of dating using the dungeon cycle was before considered to be.

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Imre Galambos: Something that was characteristic of the Tibetan period so let's say the early the first half of the 19th century into long.

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Imre Galambos: But now it has become quite obvious that this was used, even after that, so we cannot date this little booklet to before.

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Imre Galambos: 850, but we have to.

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Imre Galambos: It actually can be data to me the time so.

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Imre Galambos: In within those.

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Imre Galambos: limits.

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Imre Galambos: Going term began to a year to be 868 or 928 or 980.

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Imre Galambos: and basically we know, again, this is something that was not known before that, but after having looked at.

285
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Imre Galambos: People have worked with these booklets so these coded Codex forums for a while it's it's obvious that they come from the 10th century.

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Imre Galambos: Or maybe slightly before that, but the date 860 would not be applicable to them so it's actually because of the form of the book.

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Imre Galambos: The material structure of the book, we know that this content here is either night 928 or nine at actually it's probably like 80, but there are many, many arguments behind that which i'm not gonna talk now.

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Imre Galambos: So nine at in terms of the historical context is.

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Imre Galambos: Even.

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Imre Galambos: Is the query June period, so the greeting period is the one following the Tibetan period, this is when the region was a semi independent state, with close connection connections to Central Asia states but.

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Imre Galambos: separated from from central China.

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Imre Galambos: And at this point and the influence of Tibetan culture is also very strong.

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Imre Galambos: So.

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Imre Galambos: Even though the Tibetan period ended nevertheless Tibetan culture remained in the region and Tibetan language continued to be used in certain spheres as a.

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Imre Galambos: linguist lingua franca and Chinese continue to be, as well as well, so the the date, here we can see the 20th of the 12th.

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Imre Galambos: What is it sure yeah Okay, the 20th of the of the 12th month that's towards the end of the year.

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Imre Galambos: And I haven't actually looked up the significance for it, but one with obviously need to do that because it's it's quite relevant.

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Imre Galambos: This is the Lunar calendar, so it would be obviously different from our Western calendar which was actually not in us back then either, but.

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Imre Galambos: Basically it's it's towards the end of the year, probably in January or February at the time, and sometimes these dates for important Buddhist festivals, and that actually give some kind of background to why the manuscript would have been copied or completed.

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Imre Galambos: But in this case i'm not aware of any particular.

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Imre Galambos: date any particular significance to the state.

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Imre Galambos: So the coming back a little bit to the Codex form it's actually.

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Imre Galambos: methodological this, this would be our.

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Imre Galambos: Material context or physical context the context of materiality.

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Imre Galambos: As I mentioned at the beginning of my talk the cult of the book.

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Imre Galambos: But so that's really, really important here, but they're also concrete things to look at.

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Imre Galambos: So many people only see the text, the text and others describe the form of the manuscript and sometimes they describe it in detail when they talk about it, but then they do not use it for anything so they described the size that describing I don't know particular features, but then.

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Imre Galambos: it's just the description, and I think it's it's very useful to kind of think about what we've just described and maybe make a step forward if we can and sometimes we cannot make a step forward, but sometimes maybe we can just by kind of thinking it through and then making.

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Imre Galambos: An extra step.

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Imre Galambos: So the book form here is this.

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Imre Galambos: codecs form and this kind of quiet Codex so the Codex the book that consists of several clients and the clients are.

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Imre Galambos: requires consistent by folio sewn together into choirs or these gatherings they start to gather and they're sewn in the Center alone before.

313
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Imre Galambos: that's a very that's entirely a Western book form and by acknowledging that we actually create this immediate connection with Western manuscript culture.

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Imre Galambos: So here just to show you a similar thing this is from Ireland and i'm absolutely not suggesting connection between Ireland and doing all but i'm just showing because I found this image on the web.

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Imre Galambos: This is an eight century manuscript from from Dublin from Trinity College that it's it's kind of the same structure, and I think this top and bottom layer is a hard layer so that's different in China, but basically be.

316
00:51:36.600 --> 00:51:54.480
Imre Galambos: The sewing the choirs from by foot folded by folio and then sewing the choirs together into one book is very, very similar or you can also see, for example, a public book again we have this heart.

317
00:51:56.070 --> 00:52:06.090
Imre Galambos: Cover which you don't have a Chinese case, but then otherwise it's actually a very, very similar structure, so this structure has been used since.

318
00:52:08.880 --> 00:52:13.320
Imre Galambos: Quite quite early I mean it goes back ultimately to.

319
00:52:15.210 --> 00:52:16.050
Imre Galambos: To Roman.

320
00:52:18.570 --> 00:52:24.780
Imre Galambos: These these wooden boards joined together, but then later with.

321
00:52:26.400 --> 00:52:39.780
Imre Galambos: They started making them out of vellum and then they they became quite popular and spread as Christianity spread so with the Christian faith they became quite.

322
00:52:41.490 --> 00:52:48.630
Imre Galambos: Well, we can say they spread pretty much everywhere in the Western world and also parts of Central Asia.

323
00:52:49.620 --> 00:53:04.710
Imre Galambos: So this connection I think is very, very important than I don't have all the details of how this book for might have ended up in China or nothing China let's put it all in Central Asia.

324
00:53:05.940 --> 00:53:12.750
Imre Galambos: But it's nevertheless it's the same form, and I think we have to be mindful of this and we have to keep this in mind.

325
00:53:15.480 --> 00:53:16.860
Imre Galambos: Now the other thing is the.

326
00:53:18.990 --> 00:53:28.260
Imre Galambos: In terms of the material structure of this Codex is the size, so, as you can see here underneath, you have the scale.

327
00:53:29.310 --> 00:53:41.700
Imre Galambos: And this would be five and 10 centimeters so that's like three inches right, so this whole manuscript would be more like five inches open so two and a half inches this way and then.

328
00:53:42.810 --> 00:53:45.660
Imre Galambos: I don't know like six inches maybe.

329
00:53:46.890 --> 00:53:49.500
Imre Galambos: Not quite maybe maybe four inches.

330
00:53:52.560 --> 00:53:53.040
Imre Galambos: tall.

331
00:53:54.210 --> 00:54:04.140
Imre Galambos: And that's that's very, very small that's actually just like a tiny little book, which is, which fits into your pocket, so the size immediately makes me think about the.

332
00:54:06.330 --> 00:54:10.200
Imre Galambos: The portability issue, so if this.

333
00:54:11.370 --> 00:54:19.440
Imre Galambos: This was a book that was portable that kind of explains the science and also, it may be gives a little bit of.

334
00:54:21.360 --> 00:54:27.420
Imre Galambos: Well, a little bit of support for the idea of being being a portable book comes from like the coordinates being.

335
00:54:28.320 --> 00:54:41.220
Imre Galambos: rounded and not only the corners, you can see, also, that kind of the edges of the book The the bottom and the and the outside edges are also rounded so when you fold it it's it's really.

336
00:54:43.440 --> 00:54:47.340
Imre Galambos: it's not it's not a very rectangular thing it's.

337
00:54:48.930 --> 00:55:05.670
Imre Galambos: it's more aerodynamic you might say, and so the if you had a very square corners them if you put them in your if you put the book in your pocket, then those corners will wear away, but with the rounded corners and the ways my smaller.

338
00:55:10.860 --> 00:55:12.870
Imre Galambos: And then we come to this issue of.

339
00:55:16.410 --> 00:55:26.010
Imre Galambos: Okay, the the one more thing with Fred in the middle right, so we see here that I told you that it's sewn together.

340
00:55:27.510 --> 00:55:40.230
Imre Galambos: And this is, you see that this thread is broken and that's also quite interesting quite useful actually for us because that tells us that this is not a concert.

341
00:55:41.520 --> 00:55:49.680
Imre Galambos: booklets because, unfortunately, many of these manuscripts have been conserved in the British Museum when they first came.

342
00:55:51.000 --> 00:55:57.900
Imre Galambos: When they came from Japan Hong and then they were deposited in the basement of the British Museum kept there and then the.

343
00:55:58.680 --> 00:56:14.850
Imre Galambos: I don't know around 1980 they were when the British Library was created, they were transferred to the British Library but while still in the British Museum they went through conservation and, in many cases.

344
00:56:15.930 --> 00:56:23.580
Imre Galambos: We don't really know what was concerned, we can only see the results, and in some cases would become mindful of the results.

345
00:56:24.450 --> 00:56:37.230
Imre Galambos: St when we see an old photograph and we realize that Oh, actually, like some of the characters are chopped off here and in the old photograph they're not so they were the manuscript was cropped.

346
00:56:38.520 --> 00:56:42.810
Imre Galambos: By conservators in the British Museum, for whatever reason.

347
00:56:43.920 --> 00:56:52.230
Imre Galambos: And that's that's very kind of unnerving then sometimes when the sewing is very, very tight and very good.

348
00:56:53.250 --> 00:57:08.130
Imre Galambos: You cannot stop but wonder whether this was actually, this is actually the old thread and the old sewing or this is done by modern conservators, but in this case because because it's torn.

349
00:57:09.240 --> 00:57:18.030
Imre Galambos: So modern conservative would have restored it and we know for sure that this is the original thread, and I think that's actually quite useful.

350
00:57:19.440 --> 00:57:31.890
Imre Galambos: It also maybe helps us to talk about the the use of the manuscript in terms of what he was used and it's quite clear that this manuscript was being used because, after having been deposited in the.

351
00:57:32.910 --> 00:57:37.590
Imre Galambos: library cave there was it didn't on the go anywhere.

352
00:57:38.760 --> 00:57:55.290
Imre Galambos: So old aware that you see on it, for example, the torn threads and some of the corners of being more and there are some things here, this was done before it was deposited in the library cave so it's actually we can be sure that it was.

353
00:57:57.390 --> 00:57:57.840
Imre Galambos: used.

354
00:57:59.790 --> 00:58:06.420
Imre Galambos: Another thing I don't know if you can see it actually probably and i'm just showing you the things that I would pay attention to.

355
00:58:06.840 --> 00:58:15.210
Imre Galambos: So, because this is a methodology class so rather than just saying that okay let's read the text i'm just saying things that I might notice here.

356
00:58:15.660 --> 00:58:31.350
Imre Galambos: For example, the Fred, but I also might notice that these characters are retouched so they are written more than one more than once, and this like this one, for example, very clearly, so this happens when.

357
00:58:33.300 --> 00:58:43.890
Imre Galambos: People use a pen so rather than a brush, and this was this was a particular way of writing in this squeegee period and possibly also the the.

358
00:58:45.270 --> 00:58:56.370
Imre Galambos: The Tibetan periods or let's say during the entire contents entries into Hong so people wrote for the usually they wrote even Chinese characters they wrote with it.

359
00:58:56.880 --> 00:59:05.040
Imre Galambos: Have like a read and rather than a brush change that brush and, again, there are some arguments here saying that.

360
00:59:05.640 --> 00:59:18.300
Imre Galambos: Yes, this is because they were cut off from China and they couldn't get brushes, but I think these are very deterministic explanations and, in reality, this is a change in preferences and.

361
00:59:19.530 --> 00:59:26.460
Imre Galambos: it's not related to any economic or import, export issues.

362
00:59:30.030 --> 00:59:40.080
Imre Galambos: Okay, and I also wanted to talk about handwriting so in this case the back of this little booklet has three titles, you see that.

363
00:59:40.650 --> 00:59:59.760
Imre Galambos: The first one says monitored counting and then the the drone proof 17 of them for sure to meeting, so there are two mistakes here right, the more leisure, leisure, should be the lead the lead at this lead, this is a Russian character so.

364
01:00:00.870 --> 01:00:12.420
Imre Galambos: i'm in medieval China, possibly, it would have had a cake at the end, maybe not in this North Western Region, but nevertheless it's the wrong.

365
01:00:13.380 --> 01:00:23.640
Imre Galambos: or very, very uncommon way of writing more teacher, which is the name of the of morality beta one of the deities in the Buddhist Pantheon.

366
01:00:24.240 --> 01:00:38.250
Imre Galambos: And then, also the de de emphasize written would be Eric and john, which is also wrong so it's a mistake but that's not a big issue because similarly mistakes happen, quite often but.

367
01:00:39.540 --> 01:00:47.310
Imre Galambos: First, one I saw this, I was very excited because I thought we have a table of contents here and I thought you don't see that very often.

368
01:00:47.820 --> 01:01:01.350
Imre Galambos: And so, this is quite special and then I started thinking about Maybe I should try to find other examples of this table from this kind of table of contents because it's it's it's interesting where this whole.

369
01:01:02.640 --> 01:01:08.220
Imre Galambos: Modern concept of the table of contents comes from this kind of indexing content.

370
01:01:09.600 --> 01:01:10.500
Imre Galambos: In reality.

371
01:01:12.090 --> 01:01:23.430
Imre Galambos: These there are 10 texts inside inside this booklet, so there are only three listed here, so this is not really a table of contents.

372
01:01:24.510 --> 01:01:25.290
Imre Galambos: Which kind of.

373
01:01:26.400 --> 01:01:27.510
Imre Galambos: perplexed me.

374
01:01:28.590 --> 01:01:43.350
Imre Galambos: But later on, as I looked more and more at this I realized that i've seen this handwriting before and I want to point to sort of the significance of handwriting because that helps you with a lot of things.

375
01:01:50.040 --> 01:02:01.380
Imre Galambos: So, and once I realized that i've seen this handwriting I started thinking where and then I it's not just the handwriting actually it's the color of this extremely black color which.

376
01:02:01.890 --> 01:02:14.520
Imre Galambos: As you can see, in in other on other pages, the colon is not so jet black, so it kind of maybe it's faded, or maybe it never was so black it's hard to say, but nevertheless this kind of.

377
01:02:16.140 --> 01:02:22.230
Imre Galambos: Very intensely black color is unusual, and then, then I remember it one day.

378
01:02:23.520 --> 01:02:33.480
Imre Galambos: Unfortunately, a little bit too late, because I published something on this before that, that this was the handwriting of stein's assistant Chelsea year.

379
01:02:34.110 --> 01:02:43.200
Imre Galambos: So this was written by a 20th century person who kind of he collected the manuscript and on some of them, he.

380
01:02:43.860 --> 01:02:56.010
Imre Galambos: Added numbers and also added the titles and some of the titles, that being added were quite actually casual so they were not the real titles, but more like kind of descriptive.

381
01:02:56.610 --> 01:03:05.790
Imre Galambos: And it's also very clear that he didn't know much about Buddhism, so he was a traditional Chinese Secretary more first thing sort of the.

382
01:03:06.360 --> 01:03:11.820
Imre Galambos: native Chinese texts, rather than in Buddhist ones, so, hence the mistakes here.

383
01:03:12.750 --> 01:03:21.330
Imre Galambos: But this realization was actually quite important, because it's it's you know it tells you that what you've been looking at, or what i've been looking at.

384
01:03:21.960 --> 01:03:33.600
Imre Galambos: or thinking about this imagining what was happening here was all wrong, because this was written by a 2020 20th century person and the clue to that was it handwriting.

385
01:03:35.460 --> 01:03:36.480
Imre Galambos: So it's very important.

386
01:03:37.620 --> 01:03:48.930
Imre Galambos: And if we look at the handwriting on this inside this booklet, we can see that it's written in a number of different hands.

387
01:03:51.480 --> 01:04:03.570
Imre Galambos: Actually that's Okay, before I go into that I also wanted to show you that it's also because of the handwriting that I found a missing page of this.

388
01:04:05.010 --> 01:04:18.600
Imre Galambos: manuscript because I was flipping through this volume with the Russian collection of manuscripts and I sold this manuscript and I immediately recognize this handwriting because i've seen this.

389
01:04:19.500 --> 01:04:27.390
Imre Galambos: Many times this because I worked for several months on this particular manuscript and I it kind of hit me.

390
01:04:28.500 --> 01:04:42.210
Imre Galambos: that this was a manuscript I knew and then, if you look at the borders of the manuscript they're arched the same way, which was not obvious when I first looked at it, because.

391
01:04:42.750 --> 01:04:53.850
Imre Galambos: As you can see, the borders i'm not very visible, but nevertheless they visible and then, then I realized that it's it's actually part of the missing one of the missing choirs.

392
01:04:54.420 --> 01:05:17.940
Imre Galambos: Of this manuscript and, as you can see, this is the text, this is the text of the Korean team, so the 25th chapter of the Lotus sutra and it continues seamlessly so this page that you that you see here comes from before this page and, if you look at the other side, you can also see that.

393
01:05:19.830 --> 01:05:20.790
Imre Galambos: It had a very.

394
01:05:21.810 --> 01:05:22.530
Imre Galambos: dark.

395
01:05:24.060 --> 01:05:32.160
Imre Galambos: Cover that is similar to the cover the back cover of this manuscript so it actually is a very, very good faith.

396
01:05:34.530 --> 01:05:39.240
Imre Galambos: Okay, and here are the 10 texts that are inside.

397
01:05:40.260 --> 01:05:56.010
Imre Galambos: This manuscript and we were not going to look at at the one by one, now, but I just wanted to show that there was a lot of content here, so there were a lot of pages and a lot of content, I don't remember the exact number of pages, but it was.

398
01:05:57.210 --> 01:06:01.710
Imre Galambos: I don't know, maybe 70 or something lots of pages it's not a small.

399
01:06:03.690 --> 01:06:11.640
Imre Galambos: avoid small size wise but it's in text wise it's content wise it's actually quite a substantial manuscript.

400
01:06:13.140 --> 01:06:25.770
Imre Galambos: But if we compare the hands in it, and I did this little visual comparison of two characters in the 10 texts, and then we can see actually that.

401
01:06:26.580 --> 01:06:36.600
Imre Galambos: they're not the same or not necessarily the same and you could see that Okay, so the first one is different right the way that's girls.

402
01:06:37.560 --> 01:06:42.840
Imre Galambos: is completely different from the second that the second and the third, the might be the same hand.

403
01:06:43.290 --> 01:06:59.610
Imre Galambos: The fourth one that wasn't the server there was a war which is structurally completely different from the other one, so this might be a different hand and then you see another kind of which is different from the others, so this will be again a different hand.

404
01:07:00.720 --> 01:07:08.100
Imre Galambos: And then here, these format of scripts for texts of possibly written by the same hand.

405
01:07:10.140 --> 01:07:27.210
Imre Galambos: Maybe maybe two hands but made maybe the same, and then the 10th one is definitely by a different one because you can see how consistent this handed in writing that stroke of the world, but is that's quite different from all the other ones.

406
01:07:28.320 --> 01:07:40.410
Imre Galambos: So this is this is quite interesting that you have suddenly you have at least five different hands in the same manuscript and, at the time I wasn't looking at it so in such a detail but.

407
01:07:42.240 --> 01:07:51.180
Imre Galambos: now preparing for this presentation also see that some of the texts or the hand switch.

408
01:07:52.320 --> 01:07:58.710
Imre Galambos: Not at the end of the text, but somewhere in the middle, so this comparison is not actually quite.

409
01:07:59.310 --> 01:08:08.610
Imre Galambos: valid because there, there might be a lot more going on there, so there's there's no very neat division into texts in terms of who wrote.

410
01:08:09.150 --> 01:08:21.690
Imre Galambos: The sound, but if you think about it, like who wrote these like Why would you have five people writing this, this is not some of the sex are not very long so it's not that somebody couldn't do it.

411
01:08:23.820 --> 01:08:24.360
Imre Galambos: This is.

412
01:08:25.590 --> 01:08:30.840
Imre Galambos: This there was a reason behind it, so there was it's part of the design, so to speak.

413
01:08:32.040 --> 01:08:36.000
Imre Galambos: So, for example here, you can see two hands compared right, so this is.

414
01:08:37.710 --> 01:08:50.700
Imre Galambos: This is the last text, which is the same thing that I showed earlier, so the characters are larger and kind of bulkier probably and so there's less content on the same page.

415
01:08:51.510 --> 01:09:08.730
Imre Galambos: Less fewer characters per line, and so this is the previous text, and this is actually So this is the morning to canteen can pull anything, this is actually quite quite a different hand and the writing is different.

416
01:09:10.980 --> 01:09:16.080
Imre Galambos: I don't know competence wise maybe kind of similar but it's definitely a different person.

417
01:09:18.030 --> 01:09:18.480
Imre Galambos: And so.

418
01:09:20.040 --> 01:09:21.810
Imre Galambos: yeah sometimes you see.

419
01:09:22.860 --> 01:09:31.050
Imre Galambos: The switch from one hand to the other one it happens at the end at the beginning of the tax or some person finished.

420
01:09:32.640 --> 01:09:34.530
Imre Galambos: say in this case, they finished this.

421
01:09:35.550 --> 01:09:39.390
Imre Galambos: The Leo fighting and then they started the this.

422
01:09:41.400 --> 01:09:43.920
Imre Galambos: One is a dear by showing the HR tool on the team.

423
01:09:45.480 --> 01:09:51.270
Imre Galambos: was a different person so it's very, very apparent and quite obvious.

424
01:09:52.470 --> 01:09:55.530
Imre Galambos: And thinking about this this handwriting actually.

425
01:09:56.580 --> 01:10:13.860
Imre Galambos: I wanted to go a step further, because they're also like idiosyncrasies that we should pay attention to so we're not doing this for all the manuscripts here, but I wanted to show you on this very last text, which is only I think three of these.

426
01:10:15.450 --> 01:10:16.380
Imre Galambos: spread out.

427
01:10:18.690 --> 01:10:31.710
Imre Galambos: screens so three that would be six pages of this, the size of these pages so that's that matter, a lot, and you know this seeding is actually a relatively short.

428
01:10:32.430 --> 01:10:43.320
Imre Galambos: text and, if we look through this text actually if we start reading we immediately start noticing things right, so, for example here if you go you say.

429
01:10:44.520 --> 01:10:52.500
Imre Galambos: Order for me to changing E and then you have something going on something's missing.

430
01:10:53.880 --> 01:10:56.280
Imre Galambos: And what's missing here, probably is that.

431
01:10:57.300 --> 01:11:02.250
Imre Galambos: The journey, so one scroll or something like that which was.

432
01:11:05.160 --> 01:11:16.650
Imre Galambos: which should not be here, so, if you look at the other texts in this booklet then there the title at the beginning of the text.

433
01:11:17.190 --> 01:11:32.250
Imre Galambos: Never has the German or the bin or any other measure word there, but the end can have that so we had where it was not here the previous slide So you see it says.

434
01:11:32.820 --> 01:11:44.700
Imre Galambos: No finally i'm fighting each one, so it ends on that, but the beginning of the next X doesn't have that so it says pulling eating as an APP pulling the team eater.

435
01:11:45.840 --> 01:12:00.030
Imre Galambos: So that's the difference and here, obviously, the person was doing that was copying this he by mistake added the and then realize that he shouldn't have Okay, this is not, this is not a major mistake.

436
01:12:02.280 --> 01:12:13.560
Imre Galambos: And we could argue this is not even a mistake it's just sloppy but then we go, we look at the text and we read it, so it says once it pulls that scene.

437
01:12:14.640 --> 01:12:28.350
Imre Galambos: And then we have a scene, so we know the testicles Shin Shin order on torture shen's deep so instead of Shen deep, we have seen, which is.

438
01:12:29.550 --> 01:12:36.420
Imre Galambos: Obviously, for the person who was writing this and it was very close fanatically so.

439
01:12:38.190 --> 01:12:53.910
Imre Galambos: I don't know about the standard middle Chinese pronunciation but for somebody was doing this in the North West Indian one these two words sounded very similar so he made this mistake.

440
01:12:55.530 --> 01:13:16.800
Imre Galambos: Writing seen instead of shame and, if you think about Japanese, they also pronounced the same right there Shin and both of them so it's quite natural, so this is a more serious mistake here, and then, if we go further so simitian water polo meat or follow me push charge and TELCO.

441
01:13:18.330 --> 01:13:19.080
Imre Galambos: to eat here.

442
01:13:20.190 --> 01:13:44.070
Imre Galambos: Surely it's a circle, you can complete, Sir, and then, what we should have here is 30 should call who dishes when we don't have that so that part is admitted, and then we immediately jump to this shows young seems really informal should so we're missing I don't know what is it eight characters.

443
01:13:45.480 --> 01:13:59.550
Imre Galambos: Completely gone obviously by mistake, this was not, this is not a text where you would have variation at this level, so this is a very set text we decided often so if somebody didn't include this.

444
01:14:00.720 --> 01:14:11.850
Imre Galambos: This was the, this is an emission Basically, this is not we don't know how big a problem big of a problem this would have been but, basically, this is not supposed to be like this.

445
01:14:12.570 --> 01:14:28.410
Imre Galambos: So i'm not going to read through everything but, for example, here we say for go purging we don't put yeah so so at the gym are both written without the radical so it's like tongue cm.

446
01:14:29.760 --> 01:14:31.440
Imre Galambos: So that's that's another mistake.

447
01:14:32.910 --> 01:14:33.750
Imre Galambos: And then here.

448
01:14:36.360 --> 01:14:37.350
Imre Galambos: shawshank seems.

449
01:14:38.970 --> 01:14:47.220
Imre Galambos: To seems whoo yen rb so these two characters are in the role plays they shouldn't be here.

450
01:14:47.760 --> 01:14:57.750
Imre Galambos: So this one has three dots next to it, which means it's deleted, but this one does it but actually both of them should be eliminated, so this is not it's not supposed to be.

451
01:14:58.680 --> 01:15:06.690
Imre Galambos: more interesting is the next page where what did what we find is that we have a whole lot of things going on here, so you see.

452
01:15:09.030 --> 01:15:10.830
Imre Galambos: You for Apollo me to.

453
01:15:12.270 --> 01:15:18.090
Imre Galambos: sing I quiet what is quiet go on so.

454
01:15:19.200 --> 01:15:30.720
Imre Galambos: This bit is omitted, but then, if you read it through you go through here, it continues, right here in the middle, almost invisible.

455
01:15:31.170 --> 01:15:38.970
Imre Galambos: You go through there and then you end up here and once you're finished here you jump back to this to.

456
01:15:39.930 --> 01:15:50.370
Imre Galambos: hear so basically what happened is that, after this line, so the third line on the first page after that line is quite a quite a bit of text was omitted.

457
01:15:51.210 --> 01:16:01.260
Imre Galambos: And everything was added later, but added later in a kind of a weird way because it's added between the next few lines, so not just one line.

458
01:16:03.150 --> 01:16:05.850
Imre Galambos: And this cool here actually is.

459
01:16:07.620 --> 01:16:13.170
Imre Galambos: is too much because we already have the goal here, so we don't have we don't need to have it twice, but if we.

460
01:16:15.060 --> 01:16:26.850
Imre Galambos: If we look at the text that's submitted, then this is this between those lines, the third line and the fourth line, this is what we see, so this much text is not that.

461
01:16:27.450 --> 01:16:35.280
Imre Galambos: The interesting thing is, if you count it it's 34 characters which basically means 17 characters twice.

462
01:16:36.030 --> 01:16:42.960
Imre Galambos: And that's really, really interesting or you could say it's an interesting coincidence, because, and obviously it's not a coincidence, because.

463
01:16:43.380 --> 01:16:54.570
Imre Galambos: 17 is the number of characters in the standard in standard Buddhist scrolls so that kind of tells us that the person who was copying, this was copying it from a scroll.

464
01:16:55.140 --> 01:17:06.960
Imre Galambos: And he kind of missed two lines, for whatever reason, so this is, and if you can look beyond the lifetime of this manuscript and go back a little further.

465
01:17:08.010 --> 01:17:08.640
Imre Galambos: And so.

466
01:17:10.020 --> 01:17:22.830
Imre Galambos: This this last bit that I was telling you about so first was the first one was the handwriting that I wanted to show how important was it to look at the handwriting and this other one is to look at the text.

467
01:17:23.430 --> 01:17:33.660
Imre Galambos: But look at the tax money in a sense that What can we learn about the text or the history of the text, but what can we learn about the manuscripts rather rather than attacks.

468
01:17:34.410 --> 01:17:46.620
Imre Galambos: And so, whenever we learning about the manuscript it's always about the US or function of the manuscript so the text itself in itself doesn't give us.

469
01:17:47.160 --> 01:17:54.930
Imre Galambos: almost anything I mean occasionally, yes, when we find texts that are not known or have been lost or something like that.

470
01:17:55.560 --> 01:18:04.560
Imre Galambos: But with common texts that are everywhere and everybody knows them we don't learn about the text pretty much anything but we learn about how it was used.

471
01:18:04.950 --> 01:18:19.560
Imre Galambos: And I think that's even more important and so i'll stop here but next time I wanted to continue about also kind of exploring this, the US and function of manuscripts a little more so stop because my time is up.

472
01:18:20.790 --> 01:18:21.330
Imre Galambos: Thank you.

473
01:18:26.040 --> 01:18:41.550
Samira Müller: Thank you very much for this wonderful presentation that was very insightful now, the floor is open for questions you can either type it yeah there was already a personal which raised her hand and, of course.

474
01:18:43.200 --> 01:18:43.410
Samira Müller: I.

475
01:18:44.700 --> 01:18:45.420
Imre Galambos: Have a break.

476
01:18:45.570 --> 01:18:46.470
Imre Galambos: and come back or.

477
01:18:46.950 --> 01:18:47.820
Samira Müller: No that's a.

478
01:18:47.880 --> 01:18:49.620
Samira Müller: director just for 10 minutes.

479
01:18:49.710 --> 01:18:53.520
Samira Müller: And then we're going to kind of like how to.

480
01:18:54.900 --> 01:18:55.260
Samira Müller: yeah.

481
01:18:58.320 --> 01:18:59.520
Thanks for our new to me.

482
01:19:01.920 --> 01:19:19.770
Akos B. Apatoczky MAE.: Thank you, Professor garden, which for this fascinating talk, I really enjoyed it and, as a person who also works with old texts, although not as old ones, as you do i'd like to ask your questions, ask you a question I don't know.

483
01:19:20.790 --> 01:19:32.730
Akos B. Apatoczky MAE.: how you feel about it, but according to my impression every now and then even modern theological practice tends to treat the information found in written sources at face value.

484
01:19:33.510 --> 01:19:41.040
Akos B. Apatoczky MAE.: And then somehow forgetting that comprehension and interpretation very, very often not the goal of the copiers and.

485
01:19:42.060 --> 01:19:48.210
Akos B. Apatoczky MAE.: Extra extra corruption also appears in copies originally made of scholarly qualities, so that it can be assumed that.

486
01:19:49.560 --> 01:19:55.260
Akos B. Apatoczky MAE.: Many times these texts that we are these manuscripts scripts that.

487
01:19:56.910 --> 01:19:58.680
Akos B. Apatoczky MAE.: Many of us work with.

488
01:20:00.480 --> 01:20:10.650
Akos B. Apatoczky MAE.: They were just merely for the sake of practice and still many contemporary authors are unaware of the limitations of the sources, they use and.

489
01:20:11.040 --> 01:20:24.060
Akos B. Apatoczky MAE.: This often results in substance and substantiated and highly speculative reconstructions or readings, so my question is that in your practice with the manuscripts.

490
01:20:24.630 --> 01:20:35.520
Akos B. Apatoczky MAE.: Are you able to draw a figure a ratio of decently and accurately copied manuscripts versus the number of manuscripts done in a lousy and callous way.

491
01:20:38.490 --> 01:20:40.830
Imre Galambos: that's it that's an interesting question because.

492
01:20:42.210 --> 01:20:43.140
Imre Galambos: I don't think is.

493
01:20:45.930 --> 01:20:52.980
Imre Galambos: Well, I don't think you can always make that distinction, so there are clearly some manuscripts that have been done.

494
01:20:54.030 --> 01:20:59.910
Imre Galambos: with utmost care and so these were usually done as part of official like.

495
01:20:59.940 --> 01:21:01.680
Imre Galambos: sutra copying projects and.

496
01:21:01.680 --> 01:21:02.820
Imre Galambos: Something like that, where.

497
01:21:04.590 --> 01:21:11.340
Imre Galambos: It really mattered how you how you perform the copying and and then it was proof read or proof read like.

498
01:21:12.480 --> 01:21:25.110
Imre Galambos: Four times and checked another three times and then super like approved by two more people and their manuscripts like that not many but yes, and those are obviously done very, very well.

499
01:21:25.740 --> 01:21:34.050
Imre Galambos: And then you have the early mass, but so don't have long stretches of manuscripts in time they stretch for six centuries, but.

500
01:21:34.620 --> 01:21:51.450
Imre Galambos: Most of them come from the 10th century sort of the end of the collection, but the earlier manuscripts the earlier, you know, the better the manuscripts usually are as in terms of quality and handwriting and I think the reason for that is because the bad ones they've been discarded.

501
01:21:52.620 --> 01:21:54.990
Imre Galambos: So yes, you get those but.

502
01:21:56.220 --> 01:22:03.390
Imre Galambos: I think it might not have been necessarily always the case that people were so much concerned with.

503
01:22:04.530 --> 01:22:13.440
Imre Galambos: correctly writing, something I mean I think it's our in many ways it's an obsession of elite culture or and maybe we can.

504
01:22:13.860 --> 01:22:24.600
Imre Galambos: We can think of ourselves a little bit like elite culture so we're at the top of the in terms of like textual production we're at the top of the food chain and.

505
01:22:25.290 --> 01:22:39.000
Imre Galambos: Because we produce books and then we proofread them and proofread them and then proof with them again, so this is a completely different attitude, I think, from just copying text for.

506
01:22:40.020 --> 01:22:51.540
Imre Galambos: religious reasons or for, and of course for for practice so when students copy text they they make all sorts of mistakes and then we find these manuscripts and sometimes we might not know.

507
01:22:52.230 --> 01:23:03.690
Imre Galambos: That they were copied by students or for what reason we just taste take them at face value so yeah I think your points are quite valid, but I cannot draw a ratio.

508
01:23:04.770 --> 01:23:06.570
Akos B. Apatoczky MAE.: yeah Thank you, thank you.

509
01:23:10.470 --> 01:23:13.410
Samira Müller: so nice to see the House before.

510
01:23:16.230 --> 01:23:19.830
Gil Raz 李福: Thank you, thank you, thank you so much for your for it's really interesting.

511
01:23:21.450 --> 01:23:33.690
Gil Raz 李福: lecture and my question is really sort of about the final points you made about missing lines and passages from from texts, not necessarily this particular one and i'm wondering if.

512
01:23:35.610 --> 01:23:42.090
Gil Raz 李福: What do you think of the process by which this could have happened was he resigning from memory and forgetting or was he copied from a text.

513
01:23:42.720 --> 01:23:53.190
Gil Raz 李福: And sort of skipped over certain lines, and the reason i'm asking this is i'd worked a few years ago on the on the attacks that exists, both in don't want, and also in the Dallas cannon.

514
01:23:54.540 --> 01:24:04.590
Gil Raz 李福: And it will automatically which actually much better text in the doom and then data text, but it was a very sort of misplaced character beginning of one line.

515
01:24:05.640 --> 01:24:15.810
Gil Raz 李福: In the underlying both the the doodle what the doubts on text and the do contacts are actually sort of have this exactly the same number of characters per line.

516
01:24:16.710 --> 01:24:29.280
Gil Raz 李福: And you could see that the mistaken additional context was that someone had skipped over like flipped over a page start on next page realize it and went back so he had to like the first character from like the second or third page.

517
01:24:30.360 --> 01:24:34.590
Gil Raz 李福: So you can see that the underlying tax was, in fact, that same text so i'm wondering if.

518
01:24:35.760 --> 01:24:36.240
Gil Raz 李福: You were.

519
01:24:39.570 --> 01:24:55.020
Gil Raz 李福: If you can solve this so underneath the copy mistakes, what would have been a regional manager, how they would have had whether what the regional manager, do you do, you will miss copying, did you skip over a page or we'll we'll kind of process would be missing such large chunks of text.

520
01:24:55.290 --> 01:25:03.990
Imre Galambos: yeah well in this case I think it's quite obvious, I mean we know the the original text file, so to speak, because it survives and so many copies.

521
01:25:05.430 --> 01:25:19.080
Imre Galambos: So with this mistake we have exactly 217 character wise missing it's very obvious that somebody was copying from a scroll visually So this was not the person was not resigning from memory.

522
01:25:20.460 --> 01:25:24.930
Imre Galambos: It is very I mean he was partly, of course, maybe.

523
01:25:27.480 --> 01:25:33.660
Imre Galambos: Like mumbling it to himself or something, because he made some phonetic mistakes right the scene and the ocean.

524
01:25:34.680 --> 01:25:42.480
Imre Galambos: and also the tongue and the GM So those are kind of maybe fanatic perfect graphical better but it's it's quite.

525
01:25:43.710 --> 01:25:49.470
Imre Galambos: possible to make them when you hear were reciting the thing, but the missing two lines of text.

526
01:25:49.890 --> 01:25:51.840
Imre Galambos: exactly two lines of text I think it's.

527
01:25:52.320 --> 01:26:01.320
Imre Galambos: it's not possible to do if you do it from memory right well this, this would have been yeah just just the copying or.

528
01:26:02.250 --> 01:26:08.940
Gil Raz 李福: Right so so we can mean that he flipped over so he's so please frank Daddy kind of Mrs what a couple of lines and goes back.

529
01:26:09.420 --> 01:26:10.590
Imre Galambos: Yes, yes.

530
01:26:10.920 --> 01:26:19.950
Gil Raz 李福: So that makes me think that the Dallas Texas, I was miss copied must have in pages, instead of school because in a scroll you cannot make a mistake, over and over page.

531
01:26:20.970 --> 01:26:22.680
Imre Galambos: yeah so that would have been a page.

532
01:26:23.220 --> 01:26:30.000
Gil Raz 李福: yeah so it's so that were so that's interesting because I mean that was the the underlying text was not a scroll but actually.

533
01:26:30.600 --> 01:26:37.650
Imre Galambos: Exactly I think that's a wonderful wonderful inside yeah they're kind of demonstrates what i'm talking about so sometimes you can see this.

534
01:26:38.430 --> 01:26:40.260
Imre Galambos: And I see self serve.

535
01:26:40.530 --> 01:26:49.200
Imre Galambos: Thank you, that you have a comment, he saying it's not just that they're 17 character lines missing, but the last character before their mission was cool.

536
01:26:49.680 --> 01:27:00.330
Imre Galambos: And the last character of their mission was also good, so that it's kind of you know, the mistake is this because he's kind of he's looking for the guru and finds the role.

537
01:27:01.800 --> 01:27:16.620
Imre Galambos: So it's a common I don't know if you call a graphical but it's a visual visual nice thing yeah and in your case yeah definitely there was a there's a page, and so it was it was a book for school yeah.

538
01:27:16.830 --> 01:27:20.820
Gil Raz 李福: that's kind of unexpected from those texts of the six centuries, I think should be interesting.

539
01:27:22.890 --> 01:27:34.650
Imre Galambos: It is unexpected because the this book scroll the the book form didn't come in actually until the maybe ninth century so, then we need to look at it again from it.

540
01:27:35.700 --> 01:27:39.570
Gil Raz 李福: So right right okay great thanks thanks so much that's interesting.

541
01:27:46.590 --> 01:27:58.410
Samira Müller: yeah maybe a small question from my side, or maybe it's not a question it's more like a request, maybe a mixed plane it's somehow further it's about the IDP website, as is, as you have shown us.

542
01:27:58.770 --> 01:28:13.650
Samira Müller: We can search for manuscripts by just entering the number, but if we do not know the number, I always always i'm kind of when I use the website, I will always kind of go to advanced search and then try to somehow.

543
01:28:15.390 --> 01:28:21.750
Samira Müller: kind of scroll through manuscripts if you could show something some of this as well, that would be perfect.

544
01:28:22.950 --> 01:28:27.210
Samira Müller: Like we're search of medical manuscripts of things like this, or tie fine.

545
01:28:28.260 --> 01:28:29.760
Imre Galambos: You mean now or next time.

546
01:28:30.600 --> 01:28:33.330
Samira Müller: Oh well, well it's technically.

547
01:28:34.920 --> 01:28:36.480
Samira Müller: it's over, but we could also.

548
01:28:36.480 --> 01:28:39.450
Samira Müller: Do it right now I familiar with.

549
01:28:39.510 --> 01:28:49.650
Imre Galambos: Well, basically, what you need to what you need to do in IDP you there's a function advanced search but it's not very efficient actually so.

550
01:28:50.220 --> 01:28:59.940
Imre Galambos: it's somehow not index, the reference very well so so it's not gonna that's not going to help you really, but there are indices.

551
01:29:00.660 --> 01:29:10.110
Imre Galambos: For example, there is the something the dunhuang yeah and Julia has a has an index of texts into Hong so you would and they have a symbian.

552
01:29:11.070 --> 01:29:23.790
Imre Galambos: i'm happy to give you the PDF and and you have to use that if you're looking for Buddhist texts, there is a excellent new catalog of Buddhist texts done by.

553
01:29:25.080 --> 01:29:30.000
Imre Galambos: done in Japan, which gives you all the manuscripts that are.

554
01:29:31.140 --> 01:29:46.890
Imre Galambos: That appeared for the Buddhist texts that appear in the time show canon so and that's a very it's a newly done one and so it's very, very up to date and again, you get i'm happy to give the PDF that I think can download it.

555
01:29:48.150 --> 01:29:49.620
Imre Galambos: So you need to use these.

556
01:29:50.760 --> 01:29:52.950
Imre Galambos: These tools, you cannot just go to the.

557
01:29:53.250 --> 01:30:11.550
Imre Galambos: sign for the French side to Gallica site, you can actually if you type in Paleo ocean R and B and then you type in the text you're interested in if you know that the text is there many might find the text because the descriptions They include the text titles.

558
01:30:12.660 --> 01:30:16.020
Imre Galambos: So you have a chance of finding it there.

559
01:30:17.190 --> 01:30:22.710
Imre Galambos: But I think there's no bulletproof method to do this so it's really.

560
01:30:24.030 --> 01:30:35.340
Imre Galambos: You have to use Google and CN aim and sort of look for texts that are that you want to find yeah and once you find the.

561
01:30:36.210 --> 01:30:49.050
Imre Galambos: The press mark and then you can search through IDP but he's really kind of works at the library site right, so you need you need the catalog number, basically, so you need to press more.

562
01:30:50.880 --> 01:30:55.680
Samira Müller: Right, thank you very much i'm gonna definitely look for these.

563
01:30:56.700 --> 01:31:17.760
Samira Müller: catalogs well, I mean if nobody else has a question, I think we can end the session now, thank you very much for your presentation and your time and, as you all know, he's doing it for free, just because he also thinks it's important to talk about.

564
01:31:17.760 --> 01:31:19.800
Samira Müller: methods and.

565
01:31:21.030 --> 01:31:21.330
Samira Müller: yeah.

566
01:31:25.050 --> 01:31:38.940
Mariana Zorkina: Yes, and if anyone comes up with any extra questions you're always welcome to write to us, or to write like on the email or Twitter and then we'll try to answer the questions next time as well.

567
01:31:46.950 --> 01:31:47.340
Samira Müller: well.